Dirk Mandeville Posted November 7, 2012 Share #1 Â Posted November 7, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am looking to purchase an ultrawide lens to fill out my roster (currently have 28, 35, 50, 70, 90, and 135 -- all leica lenses, some new, some old). I am considering going with Zeiss as I like the way they render and I don't really want to spend another 3 grand plus on this lens. I am curious if anyone can give me feedback on the Zeiss 18mm f/4 vs. the Zeiss 21mm f/2.8, as I would probably be making a decision between these two lenses. Â For the money, I might also consider getting the 21mm Zeiss along with the Voigtlander 15mm 4.5 Heliar, as that way I would get two fine ultrawide lenses and still pay 1/3 less than going with the Leica 21mm SEM. (I guess I could likewise consider the Zeiss 18, combined with the Voigtlander 12). Older Leica ultrawides are also a consideration. Â These lenses are intended to be used with an M9, an M(240) when that comes available, and any future Leica in the M series. I shoot a variety of subjects, including architecture and landscape. FWIW, I have experience with the Zeiss 21mm on my Canon 5DMkIII and absolutely love it. Any and all thoughts/opinions/experiences welcome. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 7, 2012 Posted November 7, 2012 Hi Dirk Mandeville, Take a look here Ultrawide lens choices - Zeiss 18 vs. 21. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
chalkdust Posted November 7, 2012 Share #2 Â Posted November 7, 2012 I have both the Zeiss 21mm and the Voigtlander 15mm. I recommend them both. However, note that "wide" is what I use rarely. I find both of these lenses are better at being lenses than I am at being a photographer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share #3 Â Posted November 8, 2012 Thanks for the recommendation. I understand that these are "special use" lenses, but I expect I will use them a fair amount for certain types of photography that I do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted November 8, 2012 Share #4 Â Posted November 8, 2012 You may want to look at an Elmarit 21mm f/2.8 A used one can usually be had for less that 1800 dollars. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share #5 Â Posted November 8, 2012 You may want to look at an Elmarit 21mm f/2.8A used one can usually be had for less that 1800 dollars. Â Certainly one to consider. But is it really any better than the Zeiss? For $1400 I can get the Zeiss brand new, vs. spending more than that to get the Leica used. Anyone have any comments on the subjective differences between these lenses and how they draw? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
exile Posted November 15, 2012 Share #6 Â Posted November 15, 2012 I have the ZM21/2.8 and am very happy with it. If you are looking for absolute stopped-down image quality for tripod-mounted landscape work, I think you can only do any better with the new Leica 21mm SEM. Â f/2.8 is useful indoors, but I really like what I have seen from the SEM and would buy that in preference if I had the money and wanted to spend it at this focal length. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted November 15, 2012 Share #7  Posted November 15, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) For 21mm on the M9, I'd recommend Sean Reid's test of the Leica, Zeiss, Voigländer-Models Reid Reviews Article Index  He illustrates that the non-Leica lenses have problems with red edges and "italian flags" - the 4.5/21 Zeiss really unusable for coloured photography on the M9. Though otherwise the non-Leica examples showed some really impressive results in other respect.  We still have to see whether the new M (240) will better cope with colour shifts fort wide angles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted November 15, 2012 Share #8 Â Posted November 15, 2012 With the latest firmware, the Italian flag syndrome has been cured. Well, at least it has on my M9 and ZM21mm f2.8 combination I would recommend the ZM to anyone, I have had mine for nearly two years and am exceedingly pleased with it. Â Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share #9 Â Posted November 15, 2012 Thanks for the comments, everyone. I will read Sean Reid's analysis. I am of the opinion that the problems encountered in the M9 with super-wides will not be an issue with the M-240, although we will have to wait a few months to find out for sure. Just for the fun of it, and because it is so darn inexpensive for what it is, I went ahead and ordered the CV 15mm 4.5 Heliar Aspherical II. Should be fun to play with on the M9. If the color banding is an issue and not corrected with the firmware, then I will just use it for monochrome on the M9 and try it with color once the new M arrives. Â That was easy. Now the hard part. I do still want to get a high quality 21mm lens and I have to decide whether the Leica SEM is worth twice the cost of the Zeiss Biogon T. Anyone who has used both please feel free to throw your opinions into the mix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted November 15, 2012 Author Share #10  Posted November 15, 2012 Interestingly, Alwyn Loh, writing on Steve Huff's site, did a short review of the Leica SEM, and in a paragraph about sharpness, made the statement: "When I first downloaded the images into my computer, I felt that the imaging quality is as good as, or just maybe exceeds the performance of the Zeiss 21mm f/2.8 Distagon – popularly used by some landscape photographers as a standard ultra wide angle lens." He didn't make any further comparisons between the lenses, and he didn't really impress me much with his review. But this one statement does give me pause. For twice the money, you would expect better than "as good as or just maybe exceeds the performance of." Seriously, the Zeiss has the advantage of almost a full stop of extra light available and is half the price. So the SEM really needs to excel in some area the Zeiss can't to be worth twice as much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted November 15, 2012 Share #11  Posted November 15, 2012 With the latest firmware, the Italian flag syndrome has been cured. Well, at least it has on my M9 and ZM21mm f2.8 combination I would recommend the ZM to anyone, I have had mine for nearly two years and am exceedingly pleased with it. Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner  I agree with you that it has been cured for lenses with an appropriate code for lens recognition. I am not sure about other lenses. What I have seen at Sean Reid's test is not very encouraging. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosophos Posted November 16, 2012 Share #12  Posted November 16, 2012 I like both the Zeiss 21/2.8 and Voigtlander 15/4.5.  Here are some images with these lenses on an M9:  Zeiss ZM 21mm f/2.8 Zeiss ZM 21mm f/2.8 Zeiss ZM 21mm f/2.8  -and-  Voigtländer 15mm f/4.5 Super-Wide Heliar (L-Mount)  Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted November 16, 2012 Author Share #13 Â Posted November 16, 2012 Great shots, Peter! Thanks for sharing. Very impressed with the look from the Zeiss 21, especially how well it handles shooting directly into the setting sun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted November 16, 2012 Share #14  Posted November 16, 2012 Following on from my earlier post, I six-bit coded my ZM 21mm f2.8 (after experimentation and discussions on this forum) as the 28mm 11809. The 21mm 11134 also works OK.  ZM21mm f2.8 b&w  ZM21mm f2.8 colour (and yes, the clouds were that colour, before anyone cries "pink edge"!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted November 16, 2012 Share #15  Posted November 16, 2012 I have both the 21 and 24 Elmarit-M f2.8 ASPH lenses and 28mm  Don't overlook 24mm very different to 28 and I use this more than my 21 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosophos Posted November 16, 2012 Share #16 Â Posted November 16, 2012 Great shots, Peter! Thanks for sharing. Very impressed with the look from the Zeiss 21, especially how well it handles shooting directly into the setting sun. Â Thanks. It handles shooting into the sun exceptionally well. The only downside is it leaks light with long exposures. Otherwise, it's close to perfect. Â Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted November 16, 2012 Share #17  Posted November 16, 2012 For 21mm on the M9, I'd recommend Sean Reid's test of the Leica, Zeiss, Voigländer-Models Reid Reviews Article Index He illustrates that the non-Leica lenses have problems with red edges and "italian flags" - the 4.5/21 Zeiss really unusable for coloured photography on the M9. Though otherwise the non-Leica examples showed some really impressive results in other respect.  We still have to see whether the new M (240) will better cope with colour shifts fort wide angles.  Are you merely quoting Sean Reid or you can corroborate with your own observation?  I am happy with images taken with Zeiss 4.5/21mm on my M9 (firmware 1.1.62 better than 1.1.96) set as pre ASPH 21mm and Cornerfix-ed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted November 16, 2012 Share #18 Â Posted November 16, 2012 Just observed my M9 was updated with 1.196 by Leica, I only asked for sensor clean last week while visiting London Mayfair store. Â No big deal but it seems it screwed up my Zeiss 4.5/21mm images - does anyone have old 1.162 firmware, much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted November 17, 2012 Share #19  Posted November 17, 2012 Just observed my M9 was updated with 1.196 by Leica, I only asked for sensor clean last week while visiting London Mayfair store. No big deal but it seems it screwed up my Zeiss 4.5/21mm images - does anyone have old 1.162 firmware, much appreciated.  Back in business - FW 1.162 reinstalled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share #20 Â Posted November 17, 2012 Back in business - FW 1.162 reinstalled. Â So I guess Leica figured out that 1.1.162 accidentally fixed the issues with their competitor's lens on the M9, and quickly issued 1.1.96 to "fix" that "problem." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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