jaapv Posted November 15, 2012 Share #281 Posted November 15, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks Changed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 15, 2012 Posted November 15, 2012 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Preparing for the M. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted November 15, 2012 Share #282 Posted November 15, 2012 OK. Guilty of imprecision. One known (onthis forum) to have died ( you guys haven't even found it yet) A number, at least five that I know of damaged ( Plus two of those on RFF). (but there might - will- be some more)Pretty good for the type of camera don't you think? And that was all I was saying, gentlemen. People who know that their suede coats aren't waterproof generally don't wear them unprotected in heavy rains. Your examples are therefore meaningless, given the likely number of cautious (prudent) users, including people like me who don't tempt fate. Even so, your numbers are likely significantly underestimated in any case when one considers the number of users worldwide compared to people following a few forum threads. I didn't read much about problems with some higher end Nikon and Canon DSLRs (advertised and/or assumed to be somewhat weather resistant) in rain until I talked to the service departments in some local stores and was consistently told of horror stories. The M8 and M9, as Mark Norton points out, has obvious 'holes' in the water resistance realm. One hopes the M is significantly improved. And that's all I was saying from the start...until you argued. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 15, 2012 Share #283 Posted November 15, 2012 "Preparing for the M" I also got a APO-Telyt-R 3.4/180. Together with the 2xExtender I payed 650 € (830 $) and am now looking forward to mix it up with my APO-Telyt 3.4/135 - Best Holger :cool:BINGO ! (even if the exteder is the "un-apo".... ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted November 15, 2012 Share #284 Posted November 15, 2012 ... I immersed it in water and this is where the bubbles of trapped air came out... Mark, you gave me a good idea.... .... you'l soon have news about MY M8.... ; I just need the right moment and a good bottle turned empty... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted November 15, 2012 Share #285 Posted November 15, 2012 OK. Guilty of imprecision. One known (onthis forum) to have died ( you guys haven't even found it yet) A number, at least five that I know of damaged ( Plus two of those on RFF). (but there might - will- be some more)Pretty good for the type of camera don't you think? And that was all I was saying, gentlemen. "You guys"? Success! We have assimilated the balance of Europe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted November 15, 2012 Share #286 Posted November 15, 2012 As for IQ, it will certainly be a shot in Leica's foot if the IQ of the M 240 is declared to be inferior to the M9 in spite of its firmware-tamed imaging nasties. We can look forward to endless M9/M240 comparisons here. It's going to be a busy Spring, or should that be Summer? The more I think about this the more I veer towards Jaap with pangs of ludditism.... Will 24mp, bit more usable high ISO and some flexibility to use unwieldy other lenses with an EVF really be a big enough jump from the M9 to make the change financially justifiable ?? I cannot see that image quality is going to be so startlingly better that you could identify an M picture over an M9 one...... and Leica have yet to reveal just what sort of imagery their new sensor is capable of... Lucky for Leica many current owners have got deep enough pockets to just buy the damn thing and then spend their time deluding themselves with anal-retentive pixel peeping that it is money well spent...... Like everyone else I'm on a list ..... and for once I'm happy not to be right at the front...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gravastar Posted November 15, 2012 Share #287 Posted November 15, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) "You guys"? Success! We have assimilated the balance of Europe. Nope, not a cat in Hell's chance. That would have happened if he'd used Y'all . Best, Bob. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted November 15, 2012 Share #288 Posted November 15, 2012 The more I think about this the more I veer towards Jaap with pangs of ludditism.... Will 24mp, bit more usable high ISO and some flexibility to use unwieldy other lenses with an EVF really be a big enough jump from the M9 to make the change financially justifiable ?? I cannot see that image quality is going to be so startlingly better that you could identify an M picture over an M9 one...... and Leica have yet to reveal just what sort of imagery their new sensor is capable of... For me, the answer to your questions is a resounding YES! If you print big, and if you sometimes crop a little and then print big, higher megapixels definitely helps. Especially to get the most resolution out of all that expensive Leica glass. Now if all you do is downsize and post your pics on a forum like this, maybe it doesn't matter so much. Horses for courses. But if you like to print big, then the jump in megapixels is helpful. You question whether more usable high iso is important? Are you kidding? Why do we spend so much money and lug around so much weight just to get an extra stop or two on a lens (other than for the shallow depth of field effects)? Because we often times shoot handheld in low light and don't like to use on-camera flash. So is it a big deal to get three extra stops of usability in camera, with no added weight or cost? Um, yeah. I think it is. The ability to use and accurately focus with telephoto lenses longer than 135mm and also macro lenses? Again, for me, this is huge. I love to shoot with a 200mm, and I love to shoot a lot of macro. This is just another reason to use my M cameras rather than my DSLR rig for such tasks. For me, the ability to use R lenses specifically doesn't matter, but it is a big deal to many who own those lenses. You also forget to mention the much higher quality LCD screen, the weather sealing, and a few other benefits of the new M. Will the image quality be discernibly different (in a positive way) from the M9? Yes, I think it will -- if you print big, if you shoot high iso, if you shoot macro or telephotos, then I think you will see a big difference in image quality between the two cameras. On plenty of photos, you may not see any difference at all. Whether all of these factors make it worth the upgrade price is, as always, subjective. To me, it most certainly will be worth it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 15, 2012 Share #289 Posted November 15, 2012 The more I think about this the more I veer towards Jaap with pangs of ludditism.... Will 24mp, bit more usable high ISO and some flexibility to use unwieldy other lenses with an EVF really be a big enough jump from the M9 to make the change financially justifiable ?? I cannot see that image quality is going to be so startlingly better that you could identify an M picture over an M9 one...... and Leica have yet to reveal just what sort of imagery their new sensor is capable of... Lucky for Leica many current owners have got deep enough pockets to just buy the damn thing and then spend their time deluding themselves with anal-retentive pixel peeping that it is money well spent...... Like everyone else I'm on a list ..... and for once I'm happy not to be right at the front...... I will watch your decision process with interest. My perception is that the push for smaller, more densely packed pixels is peaking (or has peaked already) in relation to sensor size and lens performance and a whole lot of other factors. The imagery of the pixel buckets on CMosis Max sensor does look pretty cool, but then the performance of the existing CCD sensor is more than enough for me. Also, I suspect the Monochrom is the pinnacle of the 35 mm B&W format. There's little point in aiming for higher ISO or more resolution. Even if they make a B&W only version of the M, will there be any point? I can't see it being a significant "improvement". So, my plan is to get the Monochrom and hold that long term. Leica will probably throw the M9 to the dogs at about the time that the new M.2 or new M.3 is available, and it will be a more complete camera, and less of a compromise than the M. Then again, I will probably be completely wrong - but I'll have saved some money which is never a bad thing. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 15, 2012 Share #290 Posted November 15, 2012 I think the M will be a huge success. Leica has managed to pack it with something for everybody, yet retain enough M3 DNA not to alienate their core customer base. Just about every point of critique from the forums and blogs has been catered for, with a few extras like a magic handgrip, more Mp and video thrown in. Thus possibly creating the first Leica with mass appeal since the 1950ies. It will sell more than the M8 and M9 combined, I think. Just as smart to create the MEinsteiger. The only question remaining is quo vadis Leica? About the only next step I can think of in a few years time must be the addition of auxiliary autofocus... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
holgerf Posted November 15, 2012 Share #291 Posted November 15, 2012 :cool:BINGO ! (even if the exteder is the "un-apo".... ) Forgot to mention that it's the APO-Extender - Best Holger Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted November 15, 2012 Share #292 Posted November 15, 2012 The only question remaining is quo vadis Leica? About the only next step I can think of in a few years time must be the addition of auxiliary autofocus ... Autofocus? Huh? What about, say, 36 MP, max. ISO 25600/45°, 5 fps, buffer size 50 frames clearing in 15 s using alternate write on two SDÜD cards (secure digital über-density), and body-integrated image stabilisation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 16, 2012 Share #293 Posted November 16, 2012 That might appeal to existing Leica users, but Leica has stated an intention to expand the customer base. For that intention those steps might be too incremental. I admit it would not be attractive to me. However, over the last years Leica has managed to surprise us time and time again.They'll probably come up with something totally different. The future will tell whose crystal ball is clouded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Mandeville Posted November 16, 2012 Share #294 Posted November 16, 2012 What about, say, 36 MP, max. ISO 25600/45°, 5 fps, buffer size 50 frames clearing in 15 s using alternate write on two SDÜD cards (secure digital über-density), and body-integrated image stabilisation? Most of that sounds good to me. The only thing you forgot was wider dynamic range. I mean, if they are having a custom sensor made for them, why not push the envelope? Better yet, let's do away with the Bayer pattern altogether. Have each pixel able to record any color, thereby expanding both the perceived resolution and the color gamut. Seems like it is past time for a few leaps forward in sensor technology. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 16, 2012 Share #295 Posted November 16, 2012 Since I often shoot in sand and windy conditions my first reaction to the new M from a weather seal standpoint was--Great less cleaning after each outing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted November 16, 2012 Share #296 Posted November 16, 2012 The more I think about this the more I veer towards Jaap with pangs of ludditism.... Will 24mp, bit more usable high ISO and some flexibility to use unwieldy other lenses with an EVF really be a big enough jump from the M9 to make the change financially justifiable ?? The promise of 12-14 stops of dynamic range (exposure range) is the biggest lure for me. That's film territory. Improved high iso performance goes hand in hand with a boost in DR. Faster operation and weather sealing are also very high on the list. 18 vs 24MP is not a deal maker for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted November 16, 2012 Share #297 Posted November 16, 2012 promises, promises........ Whether in real world everyday use there will be an obvious difference is a moot point..... going from 18-24mp is hardly a quantum leap in resolution. A few extra stops head-room is nice but hardly something you can live without. .... as Jaap says, Leica have put in a little bit for everyone, but hardly anyone wants all of these features .... in fact some actively dont want some of them. As a new Leica user I'm sure it's a great deal...... but an upgrade from an 1 year old M9P and/or an MM..... well that remains to be seen. Marginal incremental improvement for $8k + the add-ons is a bit iffy...... Maybe once some real images are posted things will become clearer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted November 16, 2012 Share #298 Posted November 16, 2012 What does interest me about the M-240 in addition to the regular rangefinder features, its main mode of operation? Well, here goes: LiveView, magnification, focus peaking, and EVF so that I can use all my M-, V-, R-, and Nikon-lenses on a Leica camera. Faster and more power-efficient, less buggy processor and more robust camera overall. Finally, last but not least, the new CMOSIS censor that seems specifically designed to also handle WA lenses, maybe even non-Leica ones, without excessive post-processing. Of course, more pixels, higher dynamic range, and higher ISO would be nice, but is probably too much to ask for at this time. I assume Leica will get to that in subsequent models provided the M-240 can match or exceed the M9's image quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted November 16, 2012 Share #299 Posted November 16, 2012 Well I can see we are all going to be deliriously happy with a faultless piece of Leica wizardry that trumps everything that has gone before ...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted November 16, 2012 Share #300 Posted November 16, 2012 Well I can see we are all going to be deliriously happy with a faultless piece of Leica wizardry that trumps everything that has gone before ...... Why would you conclude that? Doesn't experience tell us there will be new problems? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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