Preparing for the M

[luigi bertolotti]

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....

If early reports of the M-240 confirm that CCD provides better image quality than CMOS, I'll convert my order to a Monochrome M.

 

Rolo on Christmas.

This is surely the main point to be investigated on M 240... but I hope that it won't be like this, or at least you'll have a plus-minuses account largely positive : it would be a very BAD signal if Leica would have engaged a "custom designer - manufacturer" for their new sensor (instead of simply buying in the market) on a new camera and all of this results in a LOSS of image quality : direct comparisions M9_M240 same lens same ISO same subject same workflow etc... are too easy to make... testers and customers will make A LOT OF... they know this well... hopingfully they are working hard on this.

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[luigi bertolotti]

Ah yes that EVF is hideous indeed. Where are the maaaarvelous accessories of our youth?

 

Hey !!! What about that engraving on your VIDOM ?

[chris_tribble]

Why I won't be buying an M.

 

from Leica Rumours website

 

Actually this is one of the reasons why I WILL by the M-240. 85% of the time it will be used with the RF and a set of core lenses between 28 and 50 (MAYBE 90), but it will be so good to have the OPTION of using long glass without having to carry a DSLR system - and the EVF may well prove to be the right tool with ultra-wides.

[Rolo]

This is surely the main point to be investigated on M 240... but I hope that it won't be like this, or at least you'll have a plus-minuses account largely positive : working hard on this.

 

Luigi, I have enough confidence in Leica to place an order unseen. .

 

My comment was really a footnote, stressing how important that IQ feature is to me. All other features, which others may place great value on, pale into insignificance in my book if IQ is not enhanced.

 

Having said that, focus peaking was the deciding factor in my considerations and an EVF that works well will be most welcome.

[philipus]

Ah yes that EVF is hideous indeed. Where are the maaaarvelous accessories of our youth?

 

Lovely, thanks lct. Just for the heck of it, if/when I get an M, I'll be using the VIOOH and TUVOO with the 2,8cm Hektor

[Jeff S]

How are you going to test this? Given that I know of few, if any cases where splashwater proofing would have saved an M8 or M9.

 

Several things...

 

Most importantly, I carry insurance that fully covers all damage or replacement if needed, for whatever reason. So I'm not looking for anything definitive; rather it's whether the M is generally shown to be more robust and reliable in adverse conditions. I still have common sense.

 

But I'll wait to see language Leica provides, if any, regarding warranty coverage for water damage. (This is more out of curiosity about Leica's willingness to commit, not my actual concern about coverage given the above.)

 

Second, I'll likely rent one (or borrow one from a local dealer), first checking to clearly understand their loan agreement provisions. (I'll be checking mostly for IQ, handling, etc, but will wait for inclement weather if the agreement allows)

 

And I'll certainly look for other reviews and experiences...there are lots of them out there on other expensive cameras touting weather resistance. I'm not known to be an early adopter, preferring to let the inevitable bugs be worked through first, so there will be some time to digest overall findings...on lots of issues, including this one.

 

Jeff

[jaapv]

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Sure - but my argument was that the only M8/9 known to have died by water through bad weather did so in extreme conditions through internal condensation, in which case splashwaterproofing would not have helped at all. So the M will surely by fine in the rain; but so are the M8 and M9 - how can we tell the difference, except by comparing and destroying an M9.?

[01af]

Picked up the [summilux-R 80 mm] on the advice of a dear friend and forum member here who has worked extensively with the R system and who's work is phenomenal [...]. The images taken by creative photographers with this lens I found on the Internet were nothing short of magical.

I hope you don't believe that all it takes to get the same magic in your own images was to purchase this lens

 

 

Sounds like a good buy. The Summilux-R 80 mm is definitely one of those classic lenses [...] that makes it worth buying into the system just to shoot that lens.

Well—it sure is an excellent lens, no doubt about that. But M shooters better get the Summilux-M 75 mm which basically is the same lens, except it's range-meter-coupled. The Summilux-M 75 mm and the Summilux-R 80 mm are based on the same design; their performances, renditions, and characters are identical for all practical intents and purposes. They're twins, not siblings.

[wattsy]

Well—it sure is an excellent lens, no doubt about that. But M shooters better get the Summilux-M 75 mm which basically is the same lens, except it's range-meter-coupled. The Summilux-M 75 mm and the Summilux-R 80 mm are based on the same design; their performances, renditions, and characters are identical for all practical intents and purposes. They're twins, not siblings.

 

Yes, of course, but I was discussing the lens in the context of using it on an R body. I have no desire to put any R lens on any M body. I've owned the 75 Summilux and, lovely as it is, it's the kind of lens I'd rather have ground glass focussing for - hence, why I'd prefer to shoot it in it's R variant on an R body. 80 Summilux, R8 and some nice B&W film – a perfect combination IMO.

[Jeff S]

but so are the M8 and M9 - how can we tell the difference, except by comparing and destroying an M9.?

 

So you're saying that the improved weather resistance is just more Leica marketing bs (akin to 'camera for a lifetime')?

 

How could you possibly know all the cases of water damage for an M8 or M9...have you spoken with all company and private service departments? And how many others have avoided taking their digital Ms out in hard rain or snow (sometimes unavoidable if out on a long shoot, without cover, under changing weather conditions)?

 

I'll leave you to shower with your M8 or M9; will make a nice video when you eventually buy the M you say you won't buy.

 

Jeff

[Rolo]

Sure - but my argument was that the only M8/9 known to have died by water through bad weather did so in extreme conditions through internal condensation,

 

Can you be more precise on this, Jaap. Is that the ONLY one that Leica Service know of, or the ONLY one that you know of ?? I've heard of several, but don't know of any.

 

If you do have the data, please share it.

[wlaidlaw]

Sure - but my argument was that the only M8/9 known to have died by water through bad weather did so in extreme conditions through internal condensation, in which case splashwaterproofing would not have helped at all. So the M will surely by fine in the rain; but so are the M8 and M9 - how can we tell the difference, except by comparing and destroying an M9.?

 

Jaap,

 

Do you mean my M9? That developed nasty white spots between the sensor and the cover glass a few days after being out in bad weather. It did not actually die, it was just not usable. Leica replaced the sensor FOC.

 

Wilson

[Rolo]

Jaap,

Do you mean my M9? That developed nasty white spots between the sensor and the cover glass a few days after being out in bad weather. It did not actually die, it was just not usable. Leica replaced the sensor FOC.

Wilson

 

He was probably referring to mine Wilson. Leica replaced the camera under warranty.

[wildlightphoto]

I hope you don't believe that all it takes to get the same magic in your own images was to purchase this lens

 

From what I've seen of his photos, William has a pretty good idea how to get magic out of the lens. William Palank

[jaapv]

Can you be more precise on this, Jaap. Is that the ONLY one that Leica Service know of, or the ONLY one that you know of ?? I've heard of several, but don't know of any.

 

If you do have the data, please share it. If you don't have access to the Leica data, then I'm afraid you're playing the trumped up Leica Fan-Boy again.

Known on this forum to be precise. I am discussing the difficulty of determining the difference between the M8/9 that are obviously not weatherproofed and the M that is splashwater protected.

[Rolo]

Known on this forum to be precise.

 

About 10% of the M9/M8 owners I've met frequent this Forum on a regular basis. I suspect your assertions don't hold water, unlike the M9.

[jaapv]

The exact number is irrelevant, as long as it is low. I just mean to say that the M8/9 is surprisingly good in this respect given that it is a sixty years old concept. The M will certainly be a or several levels of safety better. But Leica calls it splash-water proof, not weatherproof, possibly to differentiate it from the S. Combined with the fact that no Leica lens is remotely watertight I am concerned about an over-optimistic sense of security which could lead to more water-damaged cameras rather than less, much like ABS led, perversely, to more crashes on slippery roads due to overconfidence.

It will indeed be interesting to see whether Leica is prepared to back it up with guaranty.

[Jeff S]

The exact number is irrelevant, as long as it is low...

 

I am concerned about an over-optimistic sense of security which could lead to more water-damaged cameras rather than less

 

Oh please. First you say (not for the first time) that there is only one known instance, then of course have to back off when 2 people immediately chime in with the exact problem. Let me see, out of all the M8s and M9s sold worldwide, and given the very few following any thread at any given moment, you're already off by a factor of two. Surely there can only be a couple more.

 

To then reverse course further to say that your concern is not about the need for camera improvements, but that those improvements may actually prove counterproductive. Heck, let's have less precise lenses and internal components so fewer people need to send their cameras and lenses in for adjustment.

 

I stand by my earlier comments, i.e., wait and see, test if possible, use common sense, determine Leica's policy, and most important, be smart enough to carry good insurance to negate any concerns in the first place.

 

Jeff

 

edit...BTW, Stefan Daniel stated in the video with Thorsten that there was no need to seal the lenses. We'll see if that proves true...or not.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[wlaidlaw]

The exact number is irrelevant, as long as it is low. I just mean to say that the M8/9 is surprisingly good in this respect given that it is a sixty years old concept. The M will certainly be a or several levels of safety better. But Leica calls it splash-water proof, not weatherproof, possibly to differentiate it from the S. Combined with the fact that no Leica lens is remotely watertight I am concerned about an over-optimistic sense of security which could lead to more water-damaged cameras rather than less, much like ABS led, perversely, to more crashes on slippery roads due to overconfidence.

It will indeed be interesting to see whether Leica is prepared to back it up with guaranty.

 

Jaap,

 

What I am looking for is water resistance to the extent that when you get caught out in an unexpected heavy thunderstorm with no shelter nearby and no camera bag, you will not end up with a damaged camera. If my wife had not spotted a rubbish bin after 5 minutes of torrential rain from which we tore off a piece of black plastic to protect my M9, I suspect even more damage might have occurred.

 

Wilson

[Jeff S]

 

What I am looking for is water resistance to the extent that when you get caught out in an unexpected heavy thunderstorm with no shelter nearby and no camera bag, you will not end up with a damaged camera.

 

This is precisely one of the points I made in post #251.

 

Jeff