Leica M 90mm's - Any suggestions?

[sblitz]

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I add to everyone on the 90mm summarit. Wonderful lens, and dollar cost adjusted for quality it is top of the charts

[philipus]

Just the hood can be a bit wobbly when extended and will easily telescope, as such not a very good mechanical protection (perhaps my 2nd hand copy?).

 

Alexander, mine is the same. Pointing the lens down, say 120-180 degrees, will cause the hood to extend slightly. Usually the lens is never in that position so it doesn't bother me though. From a protection point of view the hood is pretty useless since it doesn't lock.

 

From a IQ point of view, however, the lens is pretty incredible.

[IWC Doppel]

Alexander, mine is the same. Pointing the lens down, say 120-180 degrees, will cause the hood to extend slightly. Usually the lens is never in that position so it doesn't bother me though. From a protection point of view the hood is pretty useless since it doesn't lock.

 

From a IQ point of view, however, the lens is pretty incredible.

 

Interesting, my hood is very well damped and smoother than a friends brand new chrome 50 summilux apsh

[colonel]

good advice here

 

The best is without doubt the Summicron APO. The MTA curves are amazing. Possibly one of the best 35mm lenses ever made by anyone.

However it has an associated weight and cost.

 

If you don't need the special characteristics of the APO, or are only an occasional shooter, the new Summarit f2.5 and former Elmarit f2.8 should be considered. Both have amazing MTA charts, the new Summarit being slightly better and also having a slightly wider maximum aperture. However the Elmarit has an all metal feel, which some folk like.

 

When choosing between the Summarit and Elmarit, for me, it would just come down to price. Secondhand both are similar, although the Elmarit seems to have around a 5% premium in the UK over the Summarit.

 

The one lens I would not get is the Summicron pre-APO. Maybe it was just my copy but I found it difficult to focus (throw too long) and not the sharp and contrasty modern rendering which I love.

[!Nomad64]

JDP,

 

if you don't need the speed go for the Elmarit M. It's one of the best 90mm ever made and very solidly built. Chrome Elmarit M is heavier than black AASPH.

If you need the speed then go for the AASPH, which extended at f2 the quality of the Elmarit. Differences between respective MTF curves do not translate into discernible differences. For both lenses changing the aperture affects depth of field only. Image quality remains the same.

 

Beware! The AASPH further than being very expensive even 2nd hand is much less forgiving. Many users reported some focus shift. Based on my personal experience (I have both of the above) it's not true. At close range and full aperture it's just critical focusing. If you decide for that then the best next purchase is the 1.25 or 1.40x viewfinder lens.

 

Hope this helps.

Bruno

[wda]

I'm looking to get a 90mm M lens soon, and was hoping to take straw poll on the forum of what works well, is the cron worth the extra, etc, etc.

 

Which would you get?

 

1. Elmarit 90mm

2. Cron 90mm pre-asph

3. Wait a bit for Cron 90mm apo asph

 

I'm leaning toward the Elmarit for its more compact size, but also like to shoot quite a bit in lower light so would benefit from the extra stop. Argh, decisions, decisions.

 

Any advice most gratefully received.

 

Thanks.

Welcome to the forum, JDP.

 

Before deciding, do your best to anticipate what proportion of your photography would be undertaken with a 90mm lens. Many who own one report that it is one of their lesser-used lenses once the novelty value declines. That is certainly my experience.

 

I owned a 90mm Tele-Elmarit (1st version) for many years, replacing it eventually with the last 90mm Elmarit-M which was 6-bit coded. It is a stunning lens and meets all my needs in this focal length. So, unless you foresee much use in low-light, save your money and buy either the above lens or the Summarit. (I have experienced no mechanical problems with my 75mm Summarit lens). Don't forget that one stop difference can be compensated for, to a degree, by increasing your ISO setting.

[philipus]

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Many who own one report that it is one of their lesser-used lenses once the novelty value declines. That is certainly my experience.

 

...

 

Don't forget that one stop difference can be compensated for, to a degree, by increasing your ISO setting.

 

I disagree slightly with the first part above. Yes, the Elmarit-M is certainly one of my less used lenses. Nevertheless it is a lens that I am always very happy to own when I do need it. It is one that I almost always bring with me when I travel. For me the amount of usage is not the - or even a - decisive factor when choosing a lens; whether I need the focal length is more important.

 

I don't know if JDP shoots digital but if not, the last piece of advice is, perhaps, less easy to implement

 

I am currently considering replacing my Elmarit-M with the Summicron III. The extra stop would be a meaningful benefit to my photography and would mean being able to use the lens more often. The Asph costs too much, and is significantly heavier, too.

 

The reason I hesitate is that I'm not sure if the III will be of similar optical quality as the Elmarit-M. Both are Mandler designs, though, so perhaps they render similarly - any thoughts on this?

 

Cheers

[wda]

I disagree slightly with the first part above. Yes, the Elmarit-M is certainly one of my less used lenses. Nevertheless it is a lens that I am always very happy to own when I do need it. It is one that I almost always bring with me when I travel. ...

 

Cheers

Philipus, I don't think we are far apart in our thoughts. A 90mm nearly always travels with me when travelling; but it is actual usage I was emphasizing. For years I only possessed three Leica lenses for my M3: 28, 50 and 90. I know that most of my work was done with the 50, but the other two lenses made valuable contributions to my photography.

 

Back to OP's question which I think turns on speed. I question is it worth spending nearly twice as much on the current 90 Summicron than on a new Summarit or nearly new Elmarit-M? For lowish usage, I think not. Just my opinion.

[IWC Doppel]

Looking at the MTF's the Elmarit-M performs better at f2.8 than the pre ASPH Summicron does but they are very similar by 5.6.

 

I have just sold my Elmarit-M 90 due to lack if use (I am a 21-50 man with 75 on top for some shots) I did however much prefer the rendering of the Elmarit over my Summarit 75, both very sharp but the 75 was a tad clinical and harsh, the bokeh and general drawing for me was much nicer with the Elmarit.

 

Both have worked impeccably, the rubber ring on the 75 aperture was not to my taste and close inspection showed some build differences, the numbering looked less like engraving etc.

 

Both looked very high quality instruments and I am sure both will last a lifetime.

[philipus]

Philipus, I don't think we are far apart in our thoughts. A 90mm nearly always travels with me when travelling; but it is actual usage I was emphasizing. For years I only possessed three Leica lenses for my M3: 28, 50 and 90. I know that most of my work was done with the 50, but the other two lenses made valuable contributions to my photography.

 

Back to OP's question which I think turns on speed. I question is it worth spending nearly twice as much on the current 90 Summicron than on a new Summarit or nearly new Elmarit-M? For lowish usage, I think not. Just my opinion.

 

David, I see now we agree. It was the "novelty value" bit vis-a-vis your reference to a "90mm lens" which I read differently; I would have understood it had you referred to, for instance, the 90 APO.

 

With the usually very high quality of Leica's lenses it is possible to obtain (quite certainly) "good enough" results with less expensive lenses. So it does come down to speed. And that is likely to depend on the medium used.

[!Nomad64]

I am currently considering replacing my Elmarit-M with the Summicron III. The extra stop would be a meaningful benefit to my photography and would mean being able to use the lens more often. The Asph costs too much, and is significantly heavier, too.

 

The reason I hesitate is that I'm not sure if the III will be of similar optical quality as the Elmarit-M. Both are Mandler designs, though, so perhaps they render similarly - any thoughts on this?

 

Cheers

 

Philipus,

 

maybe these can help:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/219203-90-summicron-m-pre-asph-why.html

 

and

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-lenses/248709-advice-2-0-90-summicron-v.html

 

Cheers,

Bruno

[La Morte]

I just got a 90mm Summarit and took it to Motor sport over the week-end.

I was very impressed.

You will not make a mistake to get this lens.

Also, the size is what made me took it before the others.

See here what it did;

Streamlight Photography: Leica M9 + 90 mm Summarit at the races...

 

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[Dirk Mandeville]

Enjoyed reading all the responses to this thread. As a result of so many recommendations, I went and purchased myself a beautiful 90mm elmarit-m. Can't wait to get this baby out to shoot. Thanks for sharing, everyone. The experience on this forum is invaluable.

[jaapv]

Good choice. It is one of the best 90ies Leica ever made. Though with a 90 mm you cannot go wrong. Leica never made one that was not exceptional.

[philipus]

I wrote above that I'm considering replacing my Elmarit-M with a Summicron III and have now read the various threads linked in the Wiki.

 

It is a difficult choice. Opinions vary a lot about the Summicron, to say the least.

 

Some say the Summicron III is sharp at all stops; others say it gives a softer look at the wider apertures. For instance, in this thread Andy Piper noted that, due to lateral chromatic aberration and red not being focused where blue and green are, it is as if a softer image is overlaid on the sharp image at f2.

 

I am wondering if this would be also visible on film? Experiences from film photogs would be appreciated.

 

I'm not sure I would like a softer look, at least not if I'm only to have one 90mm lens.

 

In this thread there was an interesting OOF comparison. The Elmarit-M does very well though its f2.8 aperture means that the background doesn't blend together as well as the that in the photograph taken with the Summicron.

 

Perhaps the Elmarit-M is the best allround lens if one doesn't want to have the latest Summicron or the Summarit (being modern lenses)?

[giordano]

Look at it this way: the Elmarit-M is a much better all-round lens than any pre-asph Summicron 90, but the Summicron is an infinitely better f/2 lens than any Elmarit. The only reason to replace an Elmarit-M with a pre-asph Summicron 90 is if you absolutely have to have f/2 and can't afford them both.

[!Nomad64]

Look at it this way: the Elmarit-M is a much better all-round lens than any pre-asph Summicron 90, but the Summicron is an infinitely better f/2 lens than any Elmarit. The only reason to replace an Elmarit-M with a pre-asph Summicron 90 is if you absolutely have to have f/2 and can't afford them both.

 

+1

 

My very personal ideas:

- If you need the speed and want to retain the quality of the Elmarit-M then go for the AASPH. Period.

- If you need the speed but can't afford the AASPH then go for the PreAsph, either v2 and v3 are good, albeit a bit soft at full aperture. The v2 wasn't much loved because it's bulky and heavy, the v3 wasn't much loved because even if it was lighter and smaller than v2 it wasn't any better optically (it wasn't any worse either). Today, given the impossible prices and scarcity of the AASPH, both v2 and v3 increased in price. Up to 4 years ago it was possible to find a v3 at 400/500 € and nobody wanted them except folks on a budget. Today it's impossible to find one any cheaper than 900/1000 €. On the other hand good used AASPHs sell almost at as much as new.

- If you need the speed, can't afford the AASPH but want that vintage touch then go for a Summarex. Beware as it makes a collectible so expect high prices not fully justified by the actual quality

- If you don't need the speed so badly then stick to your Elmarit-M and don't let it go! Besides you can always push the ISO speed. It won't be the same thing but it'll do the trick. Furthermore consider that the Elmarit at f2.8 is more forgiving then the AASPH at f2. I know first hand as I own both of them (and never resolved to sell the Elmarit).

 

 

Cheers,

Bruno

[andym911]

the 90mm Tele Elmarit thin version takes some beating IMO...light, portable, sharp as hell and great focusing throw..

 

just my view

 

andy