Peter H Posted October 2, 2012 Share #1 Posted October 2, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Its been a few weeks now since the forum got its freshen-up. What do we think of it now we've become familiar with it? For my part, I'm finding it less inviting to use, which is a great shame because there's so much of interest in here, but finding it has become tiresome. There are simply far too many sections now. I know some will find the sub-section approach helpful. Its like a comprehensive index which is handy when you are looking for something specific. But I don't find it conducive to casual browsing, and that's how I tend to use the forum most of the time. When I'm looking for something very specific I use the search function. I thinks its now tipped over the edge, from helpful to geeky, if that makes sense! I'd be interested to know what other users and members think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 2, 2012 Posted October 2, 2012 Hi Peter H, Take a look here What Do You Think Of The Changes?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted October 2, 2012 Share #2 Posted October 2, 2012 I tend to agree with you. I often read the site from my iphone and the new layout is less convenient. It must be quite bewildering to new visitors too. It's feeling a little like RFF! I also use the 'new threads' button, when I visit regularly as that will only show new contributions since my previous visit. Useful but it's a little annoying when you click on a thread to find that it's from the German section! (not always obvious from titles). However, we have some members whinging about needing separate sub forums for the MM and the new M! So I understand that Andreas has a difficult job to make the site functional and please most of the people most of the time! I know the software for the forum is essentially a template, and rather like some of the features on the new M, options exist which are there to use if you can find a use for them (social groups for example). It is also essential to structure the site to make sure it gets up the Google hit list, which I guess is partly why there are so many sub forums. Ideally I would perhaps look to amalgamate some sub forums and slim it down again, i.e. Digital M, Film Leicas (M/R & others under one roof), Digital Compacts, or another option would possibly be to have separate sites for the German and Russian forums? But again this may conflict with the commercial aspects of running the forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted October 2, 2012 Share #3 Posted October 2, 2012 Fair question, Peter and you are right - we have had time to get used to it and form more considered opinions. I have to say it leaves me worse than cold. It is fiddly, counter-intuitive and user unfriendly now and I do find myself visiting and reading less; I would even go as far as to say I feel quite alienated from somewhere that has been a regular haunt for the thick end of ten years. I am a moderator on another forum that uses the same software and that is a model of user friendliness compared to what we have now. I think it is going a little too far to equate it to RFF, but it is certainly heading in that direction - quite a feat for a one-marque forum! I too understand that Andreas has to pay many pipers but the forum now has the feeling of something designed by committee that is trying to please all the people all the time and failing to please any. Not good, really. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUF Admin Posted October 2, 2012 Share #4 Posted October 2, 2012 Dear all, I listen to what you say and I agree in some aspects of your analysis. As mentioned before I have to consider many aspects when changing the structure. But user experience is the most important - so I'll try to fix some issues. What I can promise: - The Russian forum will be shut in the next weeks - Digital and Film forum content will move to the new forum structure I'm not sure if we can shrink the forum structure further without hurting too many users. Regarding the "New Posts" button: I'll change the function thus it will show only posts from the International Forum for you. Any more suggestions for small improvements without collateral damage? Andreas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share #5 Posted October 2, 2012 Thanks Andreas, your responsiveness is hugely appreciated, as ever. Here's a small personal request/suggestion for your consideration: I think one of the things that distinguishes this forum from so many others, (aside from the Leica content and the quality of photographic expertise of course) is the manner in which we are able to discuss such a wide range of subjects, both serious and flippant. I believe the Bar is largely responsible for this. Not only is it an excellent vehicle for the exchange of ideas in its own right, but its a wonderfully effective safety valve that enable all the other forums to avoid descending into the sort of squabbles that characterise so many other internet forums. Given its importance and distinct nature, I'd love to see it given a different, separate and more prominent position on the front-page index. If possible! Many thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted October 2, 2012 Share #6 Posted October 2, 2012 Hi Andreas, I visit the forum to hear news and to learn about things Leica, and also for entertainment from people I like and respect. I have found on this and another forum that a rigid, library structure is counterproductive for this. Internet discussions are mercurial, so interesting discussions tend to drift from topic to topic with little logic. On the phpBB based forum I moderate, I use the View All Topics option exclusively, as it brings up every thread with the most recent at the top of the page, and the number of unread posts in each thread. As a moderator, I can monitor the ebb and flow of the forum in all its glory from the first page without having to jump from sub forum to sub forum. Not sure if the New Posts button can be set up in that way. I don't use it because it brings up the German posts as well - if my German was better, I'd like that. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2012 Share #7 Posted October 2, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Dear all, I listen to what you say and I agree in some aspects of your analysis. As mentioned before I have to consider many aspects when changing the structure. But user experience is the most important - so I'll try to fix some issues. What I can promise: - The Russian forum will be shut in the next weeks - Digital and Film forum content will move to the new forum structure I'm not sure if we can shrink the forum structure further without hurting too many users. Regarding the "New Posts" button: I'll change the function thus it will show only posts from the International Forum for you. Any more suggestions for small improvements without collateral damage? Andreas Each one of us has his pet project of the week/month, and many people come and go, while... "Someone keeps the show on the road for 60 years now" an English friend said the other day, after the Jubilee, that left a few constantly unhappy ones complain (once more) about more than the weather. That was my thought seeing again Andreas' ever smiling face in his > 18k post here. Cheers everyone! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted October 3, 2012 Share #8 Posted October 3, 2012 Hello Andreas, Thank you & those who work w/ you for all the time & effort you put into reformulating the Forum. I see some of what people are experiencing as their reaction to adjusting to a revised system. Sometimes a change in structure can be perceived as a change in content until people find their way around. Some of the resultant complexities seem to deal w/ the repositioning that accompanied the restructuring (ie: Barnack's Bar - btw: I also think it might be better if it was more prominent instead of tucked away). I actually think that w/ a little rearrangement/repositioning of catagories much of what people find uncomfortable might disappear. I'm sorry the Russian Forum was not a success. Was that because there were not that many Russian language area Forum participants or that those from Russian language areas wrote either in German or in English? Whichever the reason it would be good if the material already there remained accessable in some easy manner in case some 1 wanted to access it. As to the separation of the German & English Forums in the New Post section w/ a new Berlin Wall: 1 of the reasons this Forum is such a good Forum is that it brings together a large variety of people from all kinds of backgrounds, w/ all kinds of knowledge in all kinds of fields, from all over the World into a real "World Forum". This is much more important than some people might think. I don't think the Forum should take a step backwards into a self-imposed ghetto which would arbitrarily put up a barbwire fence. A person scanning in 1 language would be cut off from all that is available in terms of New Posts in all kinds of areas in the other language unless they went to the other language & scrolled thru New Posts again. Time consuming, artificially enclosing & limiting. I don't see any +'s to doing that. This Forum, like the World in general, benefits from greater exposure to more options. No big deal if: "Kindergarten: Franconia" is in Franconia New Hampshire in the USofA or if "Beatles forever" is in Dusseldorf, Deutchland. btw: If some 1 were to go to the other language's Post & find a photograph of say: a giraffe: They would notice the captions & comments might be in the other language but the photos would be in both English & German @ the same time & the #'s that were not in Latin would be in both German & English @ the same time also. Gruss (If it is allowed in the English Forum), Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted October 3, 2012 Share #9 Posted October 3, 2012 Any more suggestions for small improvements without collateral damage? Andreas Dear Andreas Many thanks for your continued efforts to further develop this forum. My suggestions for small improvements are in this post. Cheers Philip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzo Posted October 4, 2012 Share #10 Posted October 4, 2012 What's happening to me for example is that, I'm forgetting on which section I had commented so I'm finding myself clicking on to my own statistics and trace back. ... More often than not, I also find my self asking, ''Did I really say that?!'' ..... .... ... ............ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted October 4, 2012 Share #11 Posted October 4, 2012 Andreas, thanks for your response. I know you listen and I realise that you have many competing voices and priorities. I think if you can make some of the changes that you have said and that others have suggested it would improve the overall look and feel (which is now very cluttered - nothing stands out) and improve the overall user experience (which is currently very "flat" and unwelcoming). I am starting to get scroll-wheel RSI from trying to navigate the current layout...! One point I have noticed is that you used to be able to click to see who had responded how many times to a particular thread. Can this be reinstated please? Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share #12 Posted October 4, 2012 What's happening to me for example is that, I'm forgetting on which section I had commented so I'm finding myself clicking on to my own statistics and trace back. ... More often than not, I also find my self asking, ''Did I really say that?!'' ..... .... ... ............ This happens to me in the real world just as much as it does here! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2012 Share #13 Posted October 4, 2012 One point I have noticed is that you used to be able to click to see who had responded how many times to a particular thread. Can this be reinstated please? +1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
euston Posted October 6, 2012 Share #14 Posted October 6, 2012 I’m happy with the changes. Nothing has been done that makes it harder for me to use the site. I find the appearance a bit dull for a site concerned with an aspect of the visual arts but better that than over-designed or slow loading. In point of fact I still use the obsolete front page as my usual way in to the site. That’s the one at http://www.l-camera-forum.com/index.html It is still promoting the first Leica User Forum Book and the 2009 Leica Christmas Card but, if you can overlook these blasts from the past, the rest of the page content is current. I like it for the links to the very latest posts which provide a serendipitous point of entry to the forum discussions. It also provides a direct link to Barnack’s Bar, which might answer the need of those who would prefer it to be prominently signposted. Of course, you still have to go to the current front page to see the full range of sub-forums but I think that an updated index page might meet some of the reservations about the new structure which have been voiced in this thread. The new front page is clearly the product of a logical and orderly mind and works with precision but that’s not what everyone wants as their way in to the site. Why not resurrect the fuzzy old index page for those who would find a less disciplined way in more congenial? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted October 6, 2012 Share #15 Posted October 6, 2012 I too am happy with the changes here so thank you, Andreas, for your work in changing the forum. I don't experience many of the difficulties raised here so it may be that the difference in the way I use the forum naturally negotiates them so I'll briefly explain it here in case it's helpful to someone. (I make no claims to being a forum whiz, this is just what I found to work for me with experience - you may already do the same.) My l-camera-forum bookmark is set to "Subscriptions" so that all of the threads I have started or posted to (or otherwise subscribed to) are listed when I visit the forum showing in bold and chronologically where new posts have been added by others. To move between sub-forums I exclusively use the "Forum Jump" drop-down box at the bottom of every page, which always lists every sub-forum and sub-sub-forum and allows me to pick and choose where I want to go next. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted October 8, 2012 Share #16 Posted October 8, 2012 I just started using TapaTalk for the smart phone and it has a feature that lets me see all recent posts only, or just those in which I am participating. Very nice feature! Is it possible to trigger the same in an ordinary browser? Otherwise, I think the current form is just fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted October 8, 2012 Share #17 Posted October 8, 2012 ...a feature that lets me see all recent posts only There is indeed something which is a bit similar. It is called "New Posts" and is an entry in the menu bar near the top of the page. It shows all threads which have posts you haven't yet read. Another one is called "Today's posts". It shows - surprisingly - all threads which contain posts which have been posted today ... or just those in which I am participating. You can set the forum to add a subscription for every thread you post in. The "User CP" then will show you all threads you have subscribed to which have posts in them you haven't yet read. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Allsopp Posted October 8, 2012 Share #18 Posted October 8, 2012 I also use the 'new threads' button, when I visit regularly as that will only show new contributions since my previous visit. Useful but it's a little annoying when you click on a thread to find that it's from the German section! (not always obvious from titles). That is a real pain. Overall I preferred it before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted October 8, 2012 Share #19 Posted October 8, 2012 I knew about current and new selections. Philipp: You can set the forum to add a subscription for every thread you post in. The "User CP" then will show you all threads you have subscribed to which have posts in them you haven't yet read. Yes, true. I've done that but ended up being sloppy with unsubscribing. My fault. Still, TapaTalk 'knows' of the recent and new post options right up-front in the interface, and somehow does subscribing without me having to subscribe. I'm fairly sure these are features enabled by our esteemed Webmaster because I participate in another site that uses the same (albeit stock, unmodified) software that does not behave as nicely in TapaTalk. I will plug along and learn. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted October 8, 2012 Share #20 Posted October 8, 2012 I've done that but ended up being sloppy with unsubscribing. You don't have to unsubscribe as the forum will show only threads which have been posted to. The dead ones do not show up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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