robertwright Posted March 15, 2007 Share #21 Â Posted March 15, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) When mine failed outright after 24 hours the camera got very warm, the battery was obviously discharging in an uncontrolled manner (I believe). So I think there probably was a battery fault that caused it to suddenly die. Leica suggested they wanted to replace the switch, which seemed possible since turning the camera on and off in combination with removing the bottom plate could coax the camera to fire, although I had no menus. So there was some sort of communication problem between the on/off and other systems. The camera would actually record images, I just had no menu access. Â So for a long time I suspected the switch, but all this charger talk and battery talk makes me wonder if my heating event was the culprit, leading back to the bat or a charging fault. Â Looking at literature for the M7, it says it has a "three-stage switch" as well-can anyone with a M7 and M8 confirm that the operation of the switches at least "seems" identical? My point being, this is not necessarily a new switch design, and it would tend to remove doubt about the switch and put it more firmly on the battery/charger combo. Â Having the camera go back twice is very upsetting, at this point a full exchange imo should take place, body, bat, charger, box and all regardless of how long the camera has been used. I thought I was unlucky to have mine die after 24 hours only, but this is beyond that. I think your dealer should just give you a new one and let Leica clean up the mess on their own. They need to dissect that camera along with the others post-mortem. There is no way I would accept repairs on what is essentially a brand new camera. You should not incurr any additional inconvenience imo. If this were a consumer 100$ dvd player or some other commodity device you would simply exchange it for new up to the limit of the exchange period with the store. Why this is no different does not make sense to me, except that quantities are limited right now. But not so much anymore, B&H has them in stock right now, and has for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 15, 2007 Posted March 15, 2007 Hi robertwright, Take a look here Help Me Solve The Shutdown Problem. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 15, 2007 Share #22 Â Posted March 15, 2007 Brent who is your dealer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted March 15, 2007 Author Share #23  Posted March 15, 2007 Brent who is your dealer  Guy--I bought it from a German dealer, so either way my camera has to be sent back to Germany. I got it directly from Mr. Uhl (below). He has been completely cooperative in this whole affair and has told me if my decision is to return the camera for a refund, he would honor that.  Juergen Uhl Foto Hobby RAHN GmbH since 1910 at Frankfurt/Main. Europe´s largest display for Leica cameras, lenses & accessories. 1st. official LEICA GALLERY in Germany & Photographica Auctions. Am Salzhaus 2 (near Goethe-House).60311 Frankfurt/Main Tel. 49 69 9207070 Fax 49 69 1310454 http:Rahn - Home / info@foto-hobby.de photografica auctionen catalogue 2005 / SHOP Foto Hobby Rahn - Welcome to our online store Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted March 15, 2007 Author Share #24 Â Posted March 15, 2007 I think there is the possibility that the charger and/or battery could be at fault here, but I am more inclined to think there is some issue at my end. I don't think it is static, because I've been in too many different situations when the failures occurred. Also, I don't have any apparent static problem in my home. Â What I keep coming down to is the card reader. Each time I have had a failure, it has been after downloading images and putting the card back in the camera. Does anyone else use a "Promaster Digital" universal card reader? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyspedden Posted March 15, 2007 Share #25  Posted March 15, 2007 Have you tried a different SD card. The Sandisk cards are also notorious for being counterfeit if bought off Ebay. Did you get new charger or batteries with any of the replacements?  Robert  I have two cameras and have exclusively used the Transcend 4gb 150X cards with no problems whatsoever. Guy Mancuso uses the same cards and has had no problems as well. I think the SD card situation, what with counterfeits et al may be responsible for many of the problems described in the forum. The cost of the Transcend 4gb 150X is $49 (Tiger Direct). I would surely give it a try.  Woody Spedden  Edit......I just checked Newegg (Newegg.com - Buy Computer Parts, PC Components, Laptop Computers, Digital Cameras and more!) and their price is $38.95 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrogers Posted March 15, 2007 Share #26 Â Posted March 15, 2007 Wouldn't it be weird if susceptibility to static damage depended on some small tolerance in the top plate? If I were Leica, I would get you a new camera ASAP, just so I could have your camera for some detailed analysis. Â I agree with the previous post, your dealer should hand you a brand new camera today, regardless of what Leica does, and take over the hassle of returning it for credit. Leica should be eager to take your camera back and use it as a test subject to understand exactly why it is failing. Â I just saw your card reader post. Card readers are cheap, get a different one. The other thing that is common here is that you're opening the camera bottom to remove the card...you likely have the same bottom plate from all three cameras too. Maybe there's a problem with the bottom plate. Maybe all the static testing was done with the bottom plate in place---what if the camera is susceptible to static damage when the bottom is removed? Â Everything must be new---camera, battery, charger, top and bottom plates, everything. You have gone above and beyond---Leica and your dealer both need to fall over themselves to help you. Â --clyde Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_h Posted March 15, 2007 Share #27 Â Posted March 15, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Brent, Re your card reader, how does it connect to your computer ? MAC or PC ? Laptop / desktop? connected to the mains ? Â regards Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 15, 2007 Share #28  Posted March 15, 2007 Brent lets get you hooked up becuase this sounds like one of 4 things. Card readers are notorius for being bad. Your on a PC so i went with one of these and it worked great both on my PC and Mac. Just a simple USB 2 carder reader, those multi readers i just don't like. You can go to one place and get all of this stuff  This works very nice http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/s.nl/it.A/id.673/.f?sc=2&category=45  This works also http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/s.nl/it.A/id.49/.f?sc=2&category=45  These work. I have 4 of them . BUT i am going to start testing something new that is 280 x card for new company. But the Transcends work  http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/s.nl/it.A/id.862/.f?sc=2&category=694  Order another battery from B&H and borrow a charger or i will send you my new one Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flatfour Posted March 15, 2007 Share #29 Â Posted March 15, 2007 I should be most surprised if Leica fitted a new camera under your top plate. My experience of cards - which admittedly is not that long - is that they vary tremendously. My first came with the Digilux 2 , The second I bought second hand and is fine. The third I bought from a shop retail and it failed in two days and they gave me my money bacl. All Sandisk. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 15, 2007 Share #30 Â Posted March 15, 2007 Honestly i don't trust Sandisk , heard to many problems from them. lexar had issues too. Â I am hoping to be testing some new SD cards here real soon that will have the NEW SDHC standard that are also backwards compatiable to non SDHC but the new cards are another standard that i can't remember maybe UDCM anyway these are professional level cards made here in the States that are around 280 x. All the normal pro stores will be selling them like B&H and such. so i am hoping to report these findings here on how they work on the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchs Posted March 15, 2007 Share #31  Posted March 15, 2007 Guy--I bought it from a German dealer, so either way my camera has to be sent back to Germany. I got it directly from Mr. Uhl (below). He has been completely cooperative in this whole affair and has told me if my decision is to return the camera for a refund, he would honor that. Juergen Uhl Foto Hobby RAHN GmbH since 1910 at Frankfurt/Main. Europe´s largest display for Leica cameras, lenses & accessories. 1st. official LEICA GALLERY in Germany & Photographica Auctions. Am Salzhaus 2 (near Goethe-House).60311 Frankfurt/Main Tel. 49 69 9207070 Fax 49 69 1310454 http:Rahn - Home / info@foto-hobby.de photografica auctionen catalogue 2005 / SHOP Foto Hobby Rahn - Welcome to our online store  Brent,  If three cameras in a row have failed on you, you must look for the common denominator between the three cameras. So, the culprit is very probably one of the common factor between the three samples. I suppose they almost surely are (from the most probable cause):  a- the charger b- the battery/ies c- the SD card/s d- the environmental conditions (statics? humidity? temperature?) e- the PC (do you use a card reader or do you hook directly the camera to the computer?) f- the top plate (!?!)  I have had a charger fail on me less than 48hs ago, and its replacement is arriving. After seating a *very* short time the batteries in it (about 10-15min), they looked like fully charged, and appeared to be so even to the camera, as its display shown a fully charged battery. But they were not. I didn't left them too much time in the camera, fearing that they may somehow damage the M8 electronics, and in this way I have avoided so far the camera's lockup. I am not the only one to have had a charger failure, the same has happened to Jaap.  I suspect the cameras may not be locked up, but merely trying to communicate with a depleted battery that thinks to be fully charged. This perhaps elicits some kind of software loop that hangs up the whole camera while it is trying to determine power levels (I am just trying to imagine the possible process), until the power reserve drains off completely. Then you have to reset the camera and/or the battery to make it all work together again. For a short time, it can be that the charger still works, but does so erratically, and gives some charge to the batteries, so the cameras recover "by themselves". BUT, if you have a completely defective charger, and that one is the only one you have, then the camera appears to be absolutely locked up and it has to resort to the Solms ICU to awake from its comma.  Continuing this line of thought, in your place I would accept Guy's offer to try to refresh/recharge the batteries with a different charger.  Best,  Ed PS: OTOH, I have done business with Jurgen Uhl in the past, and he's a great dealer. I know for sure he will stand up to his word. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 15, 2007 Share #32 Â Posted March 15, 2007 I have a feeling this thread is being read in Solms.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 15, 2007 Share #33 Â Posted March 15, 2007 To date I have only used my charger on the surge protected + filtered mains supply that goes to my G5 Powermac. I wonder if this might have been by good luck, a sensible idea. I will get a filter plus surge protector extension for my French house when I go there in two weeks. It can't do any harm. Â Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chetccox Posted March 15, 2007 Share #34 Â Posted March 15, 2007 My camera will take a picture with no sd card at all. It even appears quickly in the lcd as a review image. Why not try this simple test without any card in your camera. If all works you have eliminated that problem and can next concentrate on the battery/charger issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted March 15, 2007 Share #35 Â Posted March 15, 2007 I should be most surprised if Leica fitted a new camera under your top plate. . Â They just take off the hot shoe plate and put it on a new camera. They did that to mine and to Brent's cameras - The it is surely faster than opening and repairing a camera. Â Can you guys who understand the electronics explain the operational sequence and point to areas where a failure might occur? They must be some explanation for all this - some incompatibility issue or software glitch, as opposed to repeated hardware failures. If you were handed a failed camera, how would you go about checking to see what went wrong with it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
papimuzo Posted March 15, 2007 Share #36 Â Posted March 15, 2007 When the M8 freezes, can't we measure the voltage delivered by the battery at this precise moment?? If we could have access to the entry points of the power supply on the M8, it would be interesting to vary the voltage of an external DC supply to see what happens to the functioning of the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 15, 2007 Share #37  Posted March 15, 2007 Brent, If three cameras in a row have failed on you, you must look for the common denominator between the three cameras. So, the culprit is very probably one of the common factor between the three samples. I suppose they almost surely are (from the most probable cause):  a- the charger b- the battery/ies c- the SD card/s d- the environmental conditions (statics? humidity? temperature?) e- the PC (do you use a card reader or do you hook directly the camera to the computer?) f- the top plate (!?!)  I have had a charger fail on me less than 48hs ago, and its replacement is arriving. After seating a *very* short time the batteries in it (about 10-15min), they looked like fully charged, and appeared to be so even to the camera, as its display shown a fully charged battery. But they were not. I didn't left them too much time in the camera, fearing that they may somehow damage the M8 electronics, and in this way I have avoided so far the camera's lockup. I am not the only one to have had a charger failure, the same has happened to Jaap.  I suspect the cameras may not be locked up, but merely trying to communicate with a depleted battery that thinks to be fully charged. This perhaps elicits some kind of software loop that hangs up the whole camera while it is trying to determine power levels (I am just trying to imagine the possible process), until the power reserve drains off completely. Then you have to reset the camera and/or the battery to make it all work together again. For a short time, it can be that the charger still works, but does so erratically, and gives some charge to the batteries, so the cameras recover "by themselves". BUT, if you have a completely defective charger, and that one is the only one you have, then the camera appears to be absolutely locked up and it has to resort to the Solms ICU to awake from its comma.  Continuing this line of thought, in your place I would accept Guy's offer to try to refresh/recharge the batteries with a different charger.  Best,  Ed PS: OTOH, I have done business with Jurgen Uhl in the past, and he's a great dealer. I know for sure he will stand up to his word.  These have been my thoughts all along even going back to my failure back in December. ABCDE. Never thought of the top plate. I was actually shooting at the time for me and shot 2 frames than bam. My first thoughts are cards than battery but I still am not sure just like Leica is not sure. It' so random and not repeatable Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoskeptic Posted March 15, 2007 Share #38 Â Posted March 15, 2007 Wilson, those people who have static problems are usually told to wear grounding straps when they are at home or office. Kinda like being on a leash, I suppose. Remember those old chrome springy things that jutted out from the bottom sides of cars to scrape a curb and disperse the static electricity? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 15, 2007 Share #39 Â Posted March 15, 2007 When the M8 freezes, can't we measure the voltage delivered by the battery at this precise moment??If we could have access to the entry points of the power supply on the M8, it would be interesting to vary the voltage of an external DC supply to see what happens to the functioning of the M8. Â Â I asked Leica to try this. I was wandering about voltage drop at the time it happened and the camera gets confused because it can't get through the cycle, than it effects the firmware and all hell breaks lose. It is the root cause we are looking for becuase it is not the firmware mine was 1.06 , happened in 1.9 . There is something causeing the firmware to lose it's cycle of operation. It's the only thing I can come up with after 4 months being on my mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thpeters Posted March 15, 2007 Share #40 Â Posted March 15, 2007 Hello every body, Â Sad and frustrating for all the people (including myself) who have so much problems with the camera, but I am glad to read there are still good Leica dealers who are willing to help out with all the problems from there clients. Much better service then the store where I bought it from. And yes I a gree with some of you, who suggested that Leica should clean up the mess quicker in replacements, special with a defective camera out the box. Â Why should we suffer from it? Â I have to send my camera in also, not proper working from day 1. Â Theo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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