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Leica's New Cameras

edmond_terakopian

By edmond_terakopian
in Customer Forum

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IWC Doppel

IWC Doppel

Posted
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That's correct.

 

And to those who doubt the new sensor or question the image quality, consider whether Leica would move away from Truesense unless they had found a properly suitable alternative. Their commitment to the "image", manifest by their huge Hall 1 gallery, means that the output from the sensor is paramount in their minds.

 

I should have checked the firmware when I was playing with it but it must be very early, hence the current lack of examples. In July, the cameras in Solms were still in the "elastic band and tape" stage, now the hardware is finished. Firmware and tweaks come over next three months.

 

You are probably right, but the positioning and messaging does seem to be conservative about a big step forward in image quality. The ME is positioned as essence and not an end of run M9 without new features (Not that they would position this as such but they are not for some reason killing off)

 

What if the image quality is on par, improvements on high ISO and the additional functionality, would money back on your D700 (£1300 say) compensate enough for the 'extras' required ?

 

If I had a bunch of R lenses I would be interested and certainly buy the adapter and zone focus for fun, especially with wider angled R's.

 

I personally don't want video (I have a Panasonic HD video camera that I rarely use) , haven't got any R lenses, have never hankered after live view. All I use the back screen for is menu, a twist after the shot to check red/blue for exposure and that's it. Occasionally I review a picture but I found the M8 better for review than the M9 so I wait with anticipation for the download at home.

 

Andy, you will know better than anyone if it's the right camera for you don't listen to others who are not taken and certainly don't listen to me (My dog does, but only occasionally :cool:)

 

If I doubt my unjustifiable financial decisions I usually get a spreadsheet out and torture my assumptions until the numbers work ;)

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wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

Posted
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Thanks for the link. Very interesting preview. The video function looks impressively smooth to operate.

 

But his comment at the t-shirts is pretty priceless: "Something with a collapsible lens"

 

Oh well :rolleyes:

 

[ATTACH]335614[/ATTACH]

 

Maybe he is of the history is bunk/Henry Ford persuasion and would not recognise a IIIF ST if it dropped on his head. :D

 

Wilson

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sdai

sdai

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I think it is very smart of Leica to have gone this route. Now the sensor can be judged on its own merits, instead of being compared with other brands offering the same sensor in their products, with all the errors that introduces.

Plus they keep control over the complete design-to-production process.

 

I certainly hope so ... but based on what's reported so far, this is more like a development announcement - 3 months for firmware, tests, tweaks seems to be a bit too optimistic to me. I hope they take their time on the right things - no need to rush.

 

Having my fingers crossed. :)

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andybarton

andybarton

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You are probably right, but the positioning and messaging does seem to be conservative about a big step forward in image quality. The ME is positioned as essence and not an end of run M9 without new features (Not that they would position this as such but they are not for some reason killing off)

 

What if the image quality is on par, improvements on high ISO and the additional functionality, would money back on your D700 (£1300 say) compensate enough for the 'extras' required ?

 

If I had a bunch of R lenses I would be interested and certainly buy the adapter and zone focus for fun, especially with wider angled R's.

 

I personally don't want video (I have a Panasonic HD video camera that I rarely use) , haven't got any R lenses, have never hankered after live view. All I use the back screen for is menu, a twist after the shot to check red/blue for exposure and that's it. Occasionally I review a picture but I found the M8 better for review than the M9 so I wait with anticipation for the download at home.

 

Andy, you will know better than anyone if it's the right camera for you don't listen to others who are not taken and certainly don't listen to me (My dog does, but only occasionally :cool:)

 

If I doubt my unjustifiable financial decisions I usually get a spreadsheet out and torture my assumptions until the numbers work ;)

 

My D700 is worth a grand at the most. E++ condition. Less than 10,000 shots.

 

I can't buy one until the new year. No one can and I'm not putting money down on a product that might be 5-6 months away without seeing what it can do.

 

But, the idea of having one camera that can use all of my lenses , better than the digital solution I have now, is very attractive.

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wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

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Sdai,

 

I think that Leica and Blackstone will feel the need to rush, in order to replace the cash flow from the M9/M9-P. I would guess that the profit margin on the M-E would be less than the M9/P. As long as the hardware is correct, I would be happy to live with FW being "work in progress", given that we know that Leica are good at providing continuous updates in FW. However I agree with you that we don't want either the infrared issue or the cracking sensor cover glass again.

 

On a separate note has anything been said about putting R lenses back into production, as the supply of longer and zoom lenses, which never abundant, will dry up very quickly. Maybe the third party makers like Tamron, Zeiss/Voigtlander and Sigma will step into the breach. The lenses could be much simpler than original R lenses, as I think they wouldn't need any of the cams (would they)?

 

Wilson

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sdai

sdai

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I think that Leica and Blackstone will feel the need to rush, in order to replace the cash flow from the M9/M9-P. I would guess that the profit margin on the M-E would be less than the M9/P. As long as the hardware is correct, I would be happy to live with FW being "work in progress", given that we know that Leica are good at providing continuous updates in FW. However I agree with you that we don't want either the infrared issue or the cracking sensor cover glass again.

 

On a separate note has anything been said about putting R lenses back into production, as the supply of longer and zoom lenses, which never abundant, will dry up very quickly. Maybe the third party makers like Tamron, Zeiss/Voigtlander and Sigma will step into the breach. The lenses could be much simpler than original R lenses, as I think they wouldn't need any of the cams (would they)?

 

You certainly have a valid point, Wilson.

 

Strangely, I feel they could actually make a ton of money from the M-E because they might simply be put together using surplus from Leica's parts bin.

 

I also agree that it's probably a good idea to build some longer R lenses once again - or accept custom orders at least. But it's all an adapter game from now on ... vast opportunities out there. :)

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Paul Reading

Paul Reading

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You certainly have a valid point, Wilson.

 

Strangely, I feel they could actually make a ton of money from the M-E because they might simply be put together using surplus from Leica's parts bin.

 

I also agree that it's probably a good idea to build some longer R lenses once again - or accept custom orders at least. But it's all an adapter game from now on ... vast opportunities out there. :)

 

I think Leica are hoping for higher volumes rather than lower costs. The number of people who will pay for an M9 or above is limited, the ME is likely to sell three times as many.

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masjah

masjah

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We were told yesterday that R lenses will not be going back into production.

 

That is not at all surprising, all things considered. It's slightly sad though that, across all Leica (as distinct from PanaLeica) camera platforms, there are no currently manufactured long telephoto lenses, especially given what we know they can do in this area (just for example, the 280/4 R).

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wlaidlaw

wlaidlaw

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We were told yesterday that R lenses will not be going back into production.

 

Andy,

 

The third party makers must be rubbing their hands with glee at that pronouncement. Zeiss could put their 100-300 CX/Y Vario Sonnar back into production. This is a great lens. Pin sharp, small, light and the only issue with the original, is that it did not have a tripod mount.

 

Wilson

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earleygallery

earleygallery

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I can imagine Leica releasing a longer tele M mount lens, specifically for the M (and later cameras).

 

However, the new M offers a solution (I would say 'a' not 'the') for R lens owners who must have a Leica digital body. I'm not sure that it will attract a glut of photographers who primarily use long telephoto or zoom lenses, and so any new lenses made specifically with the M in mind will probably have a very limited market.

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masjah

masjah

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I can imagine Leica releasing a longer tele M mount lens, specifically for the M (and later cameras).

 

However, the new M offers a solution (I would say 'a' not 'the') for R lens owners who must have a Leica digital body. I'm not sure that it will attract a glut of photographers who primarily use long telephoto or zoom lenses, and so any new lenses made specifically with the M in mind will probably have a very limited market.

 

James, agreed.

 

Speaking purely personally, it appears to be the best available solution for me, because

 

(a) it is full frame

(B) I can use all my R lenses, without changing the mount (Nikon) or hacking or removing shrouds and/or shaving mirrors (Canon and the rest)

© metering will work properly (allbeit stop-down)

(d) there is some kind of focus aid

(e) there are dedicated profiles for all my lenses (except for my PC Super Angulon, for which it would not be feasible, since, just for example, vignetting correction would be shift-dependent)

 

Whatever the imperfections of the Leica solution, I don't think any other alternatives have all these advantages, and it meets the needs of my style of photography.

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lars_bergquist

lars_bergquist

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The R8 and the R9 were large and heavy cameras, to go with the large and heavy long lenses and zooms that Leica developed. Any new longer lenses or zooms for the M would need to be smaller and lighter – and with better ISO than Kodachrome 64, they could be too, because they could be slower. A 180mm Apo-Telyt with a speed of 3.4 for instance would be a more attractive option than a f/2 monster. The old Apo-Telyt of that specification weighed 540 grams. The Apo-Summicron-R weighs 2500 grams.

 

I doubt however that Leica would develop a zoom that lay within the focal length range of the M rangefinder. But a new 90mm Macro that used the RF for normal use and the EVF for close-up, would be tempting.

 

However, the EVF and focus peaking mean that with the right adapter, you can hitch pretty well anything to the M. And adapters are already being produced. I bought one OM to M from Novoflex, and it is working perfectly. With more telecentric lenses than native M wide-angles, you won't have many problems with lens recognition and corrections. An OM 16mm fisheye is working just fine on the M9, as Jaap also can attest.

 

Sooner or later, Leica will launch a RF-less camera with an M bayonet. Maybe it will be a 'MD'.

 

The old man from the Kodachrome Age

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bill

bill

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So.

 

I am currently travelling, thus have had time to read and think but not add to the noise up to now.

 

Firstly, thanks to Andy for his succinct and informative reporting, free of the "me-first" hyperbole of some of the online commentators.

 

Second, bravo Leica for some seemingly smart thinking.

 

Third, having had time to ponder I find myself in the "wait and see" camp, tinged with elements of "so what"... not necessarily in a negative way, but until I see more, until the M is out in the wild and proving itself I will not be making any changes to my current lineup of MP4, M2, D700 and GXR. No wallet-jerk reaction here.

 

As I stand I have one camera - the GXR - that takes every lens I own, including LTM and Nikon. It is not full-frame but it has other advantages. For full-frame digital I have the D700, with 28, 60 and 135mm leitaxed lenses. This combo has recently been transformed in term of usability by the addition of a Katzeye fresnel split focussing screen that makes MF a pleasure - something that cannot be said for any standard DSLR.

 

By the way, I can't wait to see how prices for long Leica-R lenses go through the roof... Then plummet again as more-money-than forethought Joe Punters buy them for their new Ms then realise that manual focussing of a long heavy lens is an art form tried by many but mastered by few (Doug Herr being an honourable case in point).

 

My Ms satisfy my M-desire in a way that no digital M has yet managed to challenge and will continue to do so as long as there is film.

 

So in short, for me at least, close but no cigar - yet.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

 

Sent from another Galaxy

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