LEICA SERIE 5.5 NDx1 13026 GERMANY

[jaapv]

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I,m sure it is a reflection off the first (flat) element.

[k-hawinkler]

Hi RM,

 

Many thanks for the feedback.

 

Two differences between pairs, move Lunar image more off axis and increase exposure time, particularly for the last pair. There the moon is overexposed the most.

 

According to http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.en/index.php/280mm_f/4_APO-Telyt-R there seem to be two flat pieces of glass, one at either end of the lens. There is the inside flat filter closest to the camera, and there is a flat piece of glass at the front of the lens protecting the first lens element proper, it seems to me.

 

In front of the latter flat piece of glass are the threads for a 77 mm filter.

But I did not have a 77 mm filter attached.

 

I own both an UV and a Circular Polarizer filter I could attach though.

[Robert_M]

K-H,

 

Thanks for the link to the optical layout. I'd think one needs 2 flat surfaces inside to get the effect you see. Great news that you have a C-pol filter. Try putting it in backwards (circular side toward input aperture). Then try it normal. I'd stick with the Moon images (off-axis) since it is easier to diagnose with one bright source in the frame rather than dozens.

 

Also, that UV filter may have better double AR coating than your ND1 filter. Will be interesting to try that. I still want to know what happens with no filter.

 

Obviously, you have my curiosity peaked....

 

RM

[masjah]

K-H,

 

Thanks for the link to the optical layout. I'd think one needs 2 flat surfaces inside to get the effect you see. Great news that you have a C-pol filter. Try putting it in backwards (circular side toward input aperture). Then try it normal. I'd stick with the Moon images (off-axis) since it is easier to diagnose with one bright source in the frame rather than dozens.

 

Also, that UV filter may have better double AR coating than your ND1 filter. Will be interesting to try that. I still want to know what happens with no filter.

 

Obviously, you have my curiosity peaked....

 

RM

 

The push in polariser unit or the push in filter holder will only go in one way round.

[k-hawinkler]

Hi RM,

 

Thanks. So, in order to avoid a misunderstanding let me say that I have actually 4 filters that fit on the lens, namely:

 

• LEICA SERIE 5.5 NDx1 13026 GERMANY

 

 

and three 77 mm filters, namely:

 

• Nikon CIRCULAR POLAR II 77mm JAPAN, CP-15

 

• HOYA Ultra 77mm UV-PL-CIR Japan

 

• HOYA Ultra 77mm UV(0). Japan

 

 

I am sorry that I didn't express myself more precisely before.

 

I can't seem to find anywhere, including ebay, the Leica Series 5.5 filters, polarizing or not.

Therefore, I would appreciate if you please could send me a PM with URLs where such filters are for sale.

 

Of course, shooting some pictures without the LEICA SERIE 5.5 NDx1 13026 GERMANY filter is next on my to do list.

 

Many thanks again for your help.

[k-hawinkler]

The push in polariser unit or the push in filter holder will only go in one way round.

 

 

Hi John,

 

Many thanks.

 

You are certainly correct that the push in filter holder, labeled LEICA CAMERA GMBH GERMANY 14591, will only go in one way as it has a slightly curved slope in its shape.

 

However, the insert filter I have itself is symmetrical and flat and can be inserted into the filter holder with the labeling on it oriented the same way as the labeling on the lens or 180º opposed.

 

Which is the correct way?

 

I would think that should matter only for insert filters that have unsymmetrical properties.

 

Question: Which different kind of LEICA SERIES 5.5 filters were actually for sale?

Question: What are their properties, coating, etc?

 

Thanks again.

[jaapv]

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B+W 5.5 filters also exist and are perfectly suitable.

[jaapv]

But I just found they are discontinued. However, I looked up Heliopan and they still have them:

Heliopan Lichtfilter-Technik | Preise

[Robert_M]

Hi RM,

 

Thanks. So, in order to avoid a misunderstanding let me say that I have actually 4 filters that fit on the lens, namely:

 

• LEICA SERIE 5.5 NDx1 13026 GERMANY

 

 

and three 77 mm filters, namely:

 

• Nikon CIRCULAR POLAR II 77mm JAPAN, CP-15

 

• HOYA Ultra 77mm UV-PL-CIR Japan

 

• HOYA Ultra 77mm UV(0). Japan

 

 

I am sorry that I didn't express myself more precisely before.

 

I can't seem to find anywhere, including ebay, the Leica Series 5.5 filters, polarizing or not.

Therefore, I would appreciate if you please could send me a PM with URLs where such filters are for sale.

 

Of course, shooting some pictures without the LEICA SERIE 5.5 NDx1 13026 GERMANY filter is next on my to do list.

 

Many thanks again for your help.

 

 

Other than watching ebay regularly, I don't know where to find S5.5 filters. I can, however, offer you a better choice. I have a S5.5 UVa filter (2 actually) from my Leica CL equipment days. I still want them for my CL lenses. But I could certainly send one over to NM for a test. The only other S5.5 filter I have is a color conversion filter for using Indoor color film outdoors (Can't remember the Number). But first, try the w/o filter test. Also, a caution, these Leitz 5.5 filters are from 1975 vintage NY Leitz stock and are marked made in US. I have no idea who really made them and I have no idea about the quality of the AR coating. But, it is still worth the experimental try.

 

RM

[gyoung]

Best of luck with Heliopan, I ordered an adapter ring srs 7 to 55 for my Elmarit 135 2 years ago and its never appeared, just excuses from the UK agent

 

Gerry

[masjah]

Hi John,

 

Many thanks.

 

You are certainly correct that the push in filter holder, labeled LEICA CAMERA GMBH GERMANY 14591, will only go in one way as it has a slightly curved slope in its shape.

 

However, the insert filter I have itself is symmetrical and flat and can be inserted into the filter holder with the labeling on it oriented the same way as the labeling on the lens or 180º opposed.

 

Which is the correct way?

 

I would think that should matter only for insert filters that have unsymmetrical properties.

 

Question: Which different kind of LEICA SERIES 5.5 filters were actually for sale?

Question: What are their properties, coating, etc?

 

Thanks again.

 

Yes, my mistake, that's absolutely correct! The insert filter could indeed be oriented either way round in the holder. I was thinking of the polariser unit, which is a self contained little module, and also, being a circular polariser, would of course be unsymmetric..

[jaapv]

Best of luck with Heliopan, I ordered an adapter ring srs 7 to 55 for my Elmarit 135 2 years ago and its never appeared, just excuses from the UK agent

 

Gerry

Is that in their filter catalog? I would never have thought of going to Heliopan for that.

[k-hawinkler]

But I just found they are discontinued. However, I looked up Heliopan and they still have them:

Heliopan Lichtfilter-Technik | Preise

 

 

Hi Jaap,

 

Many thanks for the guidance. That's very promising.

So, as I still couldn't find a seller for these filters on the Internet,

I instead sent an email to the Heliopan address your reference listed,

and asked to give me more information about the filters I would like to buy from them.

 

So, I will wait for a few days and see whether they will respond to my request.

 

Thanks again for the tip.

[k-hawinkler]

Yes, my mistake, that's absolutely correct! The insert filter could indeed be oriented either way round in the holder. I was thinking of the polariser unit, which is a self contained little module, and also, being a circular polariser, would of course be unsymmetric..

 

 

Hi John,

 

Many thanks for the additional info.

Much appreciated.

[gyoung]

Hi jaapv, it was in their catalogue at the time, and cheaper than having one made, but 'made to special order', adapters to fit series filters to normal filter threads are ten a penny, but from series to normal are like hens teeth!

 

Gerry

[k-hawinkler]

Other than watching ebay regularly, I don't know where to find S5.5 filters. I can, however, offer you a better choice. I have a S5.5 UVa filter (2 actually) from my Leica CL equipment days. I still want them for my CL lenses. But I could certainly send one over to NM for a test. The only other S5.5 filter I have is a color conversion filter for using Indoor color film outdoors (Can't remember the Number). But first, try the w/o filter test. Also, a caution, these Leitz 5.5 filters are from 1975 vintage NY Leitz stock and are marked made in US. I have no idea who really made them and I have no idea about the quality of the AR coating. But, it is still worth the experimental try.

 

RM

 

 

Hi RM,

 

Many thanks again. So the clouds finally cleared up completely tonight and I did the test you suggested. So the following two images are for ISO=100, exposure time=1/100 s, and f=4 to get a very strong overexposure from the moon.

 

First, here is the processed image, with the insert filter removed:

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Second, another processed image, with the insert filter in place:

 

 

 

Now a more correctly exposed image, with the insert filter removed:

 

 

And finally, a more correctly exposed image, with the insert filter in place:

 

 

So the main suspect seems to be the large flat glass plate at the front of the lens as Lars and Jaap suspected.

 

What to do next to analyze the problem further?

 

Thanks to everybody for their feedback indeed!

[ericborgstrom]

Yes Michael, they were frozen stiff – at room temperature.

 

A Swedish female sculptor made this installation with modern style variants of the Chinese 'tomb warriors'. Below is one example …

 

The old man from thye Mao Dynasty

 

Lars,

 

I am afraid we should not quote Mariana Heyerdahl as a Swedish sculptor. She is born in Oslo but grew up in Italy. More about her "Terracotta Woman" can be found:

 

Terracotta Woman Marian Heyerdahl, Terracotta Warriors, Army for peace, peace army terracotta, Terracotta women

 

/Eric - from Sweden

[k-hawinkler]

Hi Jaap,

 

Many thanks for the guidance. That's very promising.

So, as I still couldn't find a seller for these filters on the Internet,

I instead sent an email to the Heliopan address your reference listed,

and asked to give me more information about the filters I would like to buy from them.

 

So, I will wait for a few days and see whether they will respond to my request.

 

Thanks again for the tip.

 

 

I just saw this on their website Heliopan Lichtfilter-Technik | Bezugsquellen

 

 

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PHOTOKINA 2012

Besuchen Sie uns auf der Weltmesse der Photografie in Köln vom 18. - 23. September 2012 in der Halle 2.1, Gang D, Stand-Nr. 022. Wir freuen uns.

 

 

So, patience is advised. Oh well, what's a few days if one can actually buy these filters new.

[Robert_M]

K-H,

 

Well, interesting further pics and test you posted. Sounds like you were up all night waiting for take the weather in order to take the images. Welcome to the world of dedicated (is that spelled "c-r-a-z-y") observational astronomy

 

Yes, I agree that the filter is not part of the ghost reflection mix (after seeing these results). And, certainly that flat surface at the input is a prime candidate for part of the issue. But, there still must be a second surface toward the rear of the lens which would serve as the first reflection. That front, flat element alone can not do what you see. Another surface is involved. And, it must be some distance away from the first in order for you to see the ghost image separation you see. I did look at the lens element layout again and I see that the last lens element (not the flat filter) does have a relative flat surface. I wonder if the first reflection could be from that? You should be able to inspect that surface for cleanliness and should even be able to clean it. I wonder if that would make a difference.

 

When I read Puts descriptions of these lenses, he mentions that that the AR coatings were intentionally light because of the high curvature on some lens elements and the need to reduce any AR coating influence on aberations. Maybe that has something to do with all this.

 

One thing that does puzzle me on the entire design is why there are these flat elements at all. Maybe someone can shed light of this design feature. Is it just for protection of the front element? An optional front filter would have served this purpose. I can see including the rear filter if one intends to always have the filter option available. But, I don't understand the motivation for the front flat element.

 

RM

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[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Everybody,

 

Perhaps the elements in the front & back inside of these flat protectors are Fluorite or some other more or less equally soft material that require protective elements.

 

Remember: The 180 Summicron has the same types of very flat, thinly coated both front & back protective filters.

 

Perhaps in both lenses the decision was made to sacrifice a small portion of the available image quality in order to guarantee the longevity of the lens elements.

 

Most likely these would be reasonably thin single or possibly 2 layer coated (not counting transparent spacing, etc layers). Probably not multi-coated (green).

 

K-H: What color/s are the surfaces that can be seen on each side?

 

That is: What you can see from the front as well as both sides of the back.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael