sjefjans Posted August 21, 2012 Share #1 Posted August 21, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) OK, let me put a silly question: how can one see the difference between black paint and black chrome. Is that the same for bodies and lenses? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 Hi sjefjans, Take a look here is this black paint or black chrome?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
digbyhp Posted August 21, 2012 Share #2 Posted August 21, 2012 Black paint bodies have a shiny enamel finish, black chromes have a dull almost matt finish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjefjans Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share #3 Posted August 21, 2012 Thanks Digby. Are lenses usually black paint? I mean, compared to black chrome. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 21, 2012 Share #4 Posted August 21, 2012 Lenses are usually black chrome. Black paint one's are noticeable by their cost... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted August 21, 2012 Share #5 Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) The difference between black paint and black chrome is quite distinct not only once they begin to wear; the black chromes have a matte-looking finish whereas the paint ones have a sort of shine. Black paint cameras have brass top and bottom plates meaning so the brass will be showing when these cameras wear. The black chrome cameras have zinc underneath (though, I have read, apparently not all), which has a much lighter look than the golden brass. Some prefer one, others prefer the other. Here's an example of the wear of a black chrome M4. Leica has also changed the black paint over the decades. I made a simple comparison of the three I have available, a Leica II from 1931, an M4 and an M6TTL. Edited August 21, 2012 by philipus Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted August 21, 2012 Share #6 Posted August 21, 2012 Most black lenses are anodized aluminum, not black chrome. The appearance is a similar sheen. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 21, 2012 Share #7 Posted August 21, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Zinc is not used nowadays, it was a material for the M4 through M6 (roughly). Currently all plates are brass. The difference between black paint and black chrome is quite distinct not only once they begin to wear; the black chromes have a matte-looking finish whereas the paint ones have a sort of shine. Black paint cameras have brass top and bottom plates meaning so the brass will be showing when these cameras wear. The black chrome cameras have zinc underneath (though, I have read, apparently not all), which has a much lighter look than the golden brass. Some prefer one, others prefer the other. Here's an example of the wear of a black chrome M4. Leica has also changed the black paint over the decades. I made a simple comparison of the three I have available, a Leica II from 1931, an M4 and an M6TTL. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted August 21, 2012 Share #8 Posted August 21, 2012 Zinc is not used nowadays, it was a material for the M4 through M6 (roughly). Currently all plates are brass. Thanks Jaap. An honest mistake, resulting from poor usage of tense; I meant to say "had zinc underneath". Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 21, 2012 Share #9 Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) I hate to be pedantic, but afaik the most usual base for Chrome is a Nickle or ( in the past) Cadmium underlayer. I think it is possible to use Zinc, if passivated by chrome salts, but that is a less usual process. I have no idea of the process used by Leica. (speaking from a lifetime of messing with old cars ) Edited August 21, 2012 by jaapv Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjefjans Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share #10 Posted August 21, 2012 Lenses are usually black chrome. Black paint one's are noticeable by their cost... But why are black paint lenses worth more than black chrome ones ?? Is it the material used, or maybe as they are more rare ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted August 21, 2012 Share #11 Posted August 21, 2012 It's due to rarity combined with a perception, predominantly in the collectors' community, that they are worth more which drives up prices. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kivis Posted August 22, 2012 Share #12 Posted August 22, 2012 So then exactly which M's have been made with black paint covering brass top and bottom? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted August 22, 2012 Share #13 Posted August 22, 2012 Black paint lenses and chrome lenses are made of brass, regular black lenses are anodized aluminum barrels. Black paint and chrome lenses are noticeably heavier. IMO, I prefer brass based lenses because over the years they seem to have been more precise ... but that is strictly anecdotal evidence and impressions, with zero fact to prove it. I'm not a fan of black paint cameras because they get smeary and show oily finger prints if you actually use the camera once in a while : : -) They also seem to wear faster than black chrome and require more babying. The whole "badge of honor" wear on a M is a fallacy unless you are some famous photographer ... other-wise it just means your camera will be worth less than one in pristine shape when you try to sell it. Most Leica folk prefer pristine. Hope the M10 comes in black chrome. -Marc 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted August 22, 2012 Share #14 Posted August 22, 2012 Most Leica folk prefer pristine. Hope the M10 comes in black chrome. -Marc I am with the folks, who prefer black paint on brass with camera gear. Interestingly, it has absolutely nothing to do with the "batch of honor thing", you are mentioning (and I absolutely despise the look of a sandpapered and filed camera, some nut cases have achieved). I simply love the idea of a true patina with certain tools, of which the wear of black paint on a beautiful brass base is one of the nicest. Anecdotally, I also prefer this patina with my writing tools, using daily a set of Rotring black enamel on brass F600 pens, which date back to the drawing board days, involved in mechanical design. My M8.2 and my daily ball pen interestingly have exactly the very same cosmetic, worn condition and I wouldn't part for money from either. This brings us to another issue of black paint items: They really grow on you, as you use them, making it difficult to sell them off - not for their cosmetic condition, but for you to thinking it over, why you would sell off this nicely working, proven tool. I only wish, Leica would offer all M9 variants in black paint - I am going to pick up a MM, but truly hate that exactly this very camera, as back to basics, as it get's is only offered in the hardest wearing finish to get. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted August 22, 2012 Share #15 Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) So then exactly which M's have been made with black paint covering brass top and bottom? The Wiki's serial number lists will largely give answers to this (look for "Schwz Lackiert" and similar expressions). Andrew Nemeth has a write-up on this, quoting information some of the members here and over at RFF. About black paint showing finger marks, in my experience that isn't true. And Dirk, I'm with you on the Rotring 600s I have one that saw me through Uni and law school. Your post caused me to look for it now and I'm afraid it seems to have developed legs(!). Edited August 22, 2012 by philipus Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted August 22, 2012 Share #16 Posted August 22, 2012 I'm afraid it seems to have developed legs I am known for getting very serious about one old pen of mine, to prevent it from disappearing: "Don't touch that pen !!!" 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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