Digital/Film/Career conundrum

[stunsworth]

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What would someone do after graduating with a portfolio of art based photography such as conceptual and abstract work?

 

Get a job at McDonalds? A flippant answer, but I expect times are hard at the best of times never mind at the moment.

 

It's ok to say that arts degrees emphasise the art and not the business side of things, but I would think the latter is essential if you intend a career in art outside of teaching. No one is going to beat their way to an unknown's door. You have to know how to sell yourself.

[earleygallery]

If you intend to work as a fine art photographer then I guess you need to be prepared to earn basically nothing (or take a part time job in McDonalds!) while you attempt to build a following and interest in your work. That could take many years. Maybe you'll get lucky, you could become a highly sought after and highly paid photographer.

 

I guess it's a little like wanting to act for a living.

 

Alternatively, to get work as a 'commercial' photographers assistant, or within the photography division of a media business will certainly require a good knowledge of studio lighting, digital workflow and post processing.

 

Maybe the best advice is to look for further training in these areas once the art course is completed.

 

Best of luck with it. I wanted to work in photography too, but pretty much everyone I spoke to advised me against it (apart from my parents I must say, who told me to do what I wanted). The fact is that there are plenty of people who earn a good living from a career in photography and unless you try then you can only fail!

[pico]

Huh!?

 

I cannot believe it. A person who is deeply into photography and has studied it at college and currently is studying at university really actually seriously is asking this question on an Internet forum? Huh? HUH!?

 

Come on! This must be a troll!

 

That's my reaction to the What (bag, strap, case) questions.

 

Also, when asking questions, very often the poster is simply looking for collaborators or affirmation.

[pgk]

I wanted to work in photography too, but pretty much everyone I spoke to advised me against it (apart from my parents I must say, who told me to do what I wanted). The fact is that there are plenty of people who earn a good living from a career in photography and unless you try then you can only fail!

Well, I've enjoyed the last 22 years of freelancing as a photographer but to do so today is a hell of a lot more difficult than it was when I started. More competition, and currently less sales - from what I gather many stills photographers are feeling the pinch. Handicapping yourself by a film only approach would, in my opinion be insanity in the current economic situation.

[CalArts 99]

What would someone do after graduating with a portfolio of art based photography such as conceptual and abstract work?

 

Be an artist. They are training you in art with an emphasis on using photography as your medium.

 

If this is not what you want to be, then you are in the wrong program. If you want to be a commercial photographer then go to a technical or trade school and become a photographer and not an artist who is using photographic processes as their medium.

 

As just one example there is:

 

1) Brooks Institute of Photography Photography Schools, Film Schools, Digital Photography School

 

2) The California Institute of the Arts CalArts | California Institute of the Arts

 

Do you see the difference between the two schools? The agenda of the Brooks Institute of Photography is to train professional photographers. The agenda of the California Institute of the Arts is to train professional artists. And both are among the top ranked schools worldwide, but just with two different purposes.

 

And you can also do both. One example is Robert Glenn Ketchum who received an undergraduate degree from the art department at UCLA (working with well-known conceptual artist Robert Heineken) and then went to the Brooks Institute of Photography to learn the technical side of the medium. UCLA taught him to be an artist and Brooks taught him to be a commercial photographer. After Brooks, he went to the California Institute of the Arts and received the MFA from the art school under the photography program working with Leland Rice. Robert Glenn Ketchum

 

I get many potential students coming to me asking me these same questions. My answer is basically this: If you want to be an artist and/or be involved in the art world, then go to art school. If you want to be a commercial photographer or work in the commercial industry then go to a technical school. Or do both to be competitive in both worlds. If you don't want to go to school and still be a photographer, then get a job as an assistant. If you want to be an art educator and an active artist using photography, then get the MFA degree from an art program and teach: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/2131860-post20.html

 

A job as an assistant is similar to going through a technical program. You work for anybody at first. Then you step up to a better known photographer. After that you move on to a well-known photographer. Working as an assistant is an education in itself. And possibly one of the best one you'll get if you want to be a commercial photographer. It's hands on learning and with a paycheck. In fact, many graduates of commercial photography programs start out as an assistant.

 

But getting a job as an assistant can be very competitive and you have to be prepared to start on the bottom (being a gopher and fetching coffee for a studio, e.g.) You simply work your way up. Nonetheless, I know assistants who have made it their career (working with a top name studio) and have time to pursue their own work while making a very good income.

 

You have many choices. Choose the one that best fits your end goal.

[pico]

To add to CalArt's excellent article - some large commercial studios hire freelance specialists such as makeup artists, food stylists, lighting techs, large-scale shoot muscle and photographers! Yes, even a name photographer doesn't always make the photo. You usually find such studios in large cities. I found such freelancers make good money and are a lot of fun to be with off-the-job. Circulating among excellent craftspersons and artists is half the reward of the field.

[stunsworth]

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Remember that the OP lives in north of England not the US of A.

[CalArts 99]

Remember that the OP lives in north of England not the US of A.

 

I'm pretty sure we all realize that.

[NZDavid]

I had to google Goole -- east coast of Britain. Sorry, don't know about it or its history. Much depends on where you live as to how viable any career is. Here in New Zealand with a tiny population of 4 million there are few opportunities and they are getting fewer. I use to think it was great to be one out of 100 selected for a place in a postgraduate journalism course -- but have a look at career websites and there may be less than 10 journalism jobs in the whole country going at any one time, and none of them suitable. That compares with over 1,000 jobs for IT. Also compare pay rates: much lower than other professions.

 

There are even fewer jobs for photographers advertised. Most set up business by themselves.

 

That said, after 26 years I still really enjoy writing (for a newspaper) and mix in some freelance writing and photography. I have also worked overseas, and that is always a possibility. I especially love getting out and about, seeing places and meeting people whenever I can, as opposed to being stuck in an office all day.

 

Lee, the situation will undoubtedly be different in Britain, but I'd suggest looking at career websites to see what is available. It seems few young people take a good hard look at practical realities of the career marketplace. The reality is, the decisions you make now in your early 20s will influence your life for decades to come.

 

You may also want to consider a small business course. It will stand you in good stead.

 

I had no idea what I wanted to do after competing an arts degree: I saved up, went traveling, then came back and did the journalism course.

 

I do think we are all more suited to one vocation or skill set out. The trick is finding out what it is. Here's a fun test to try. (Strangely, as well as writing and communications it also suggested I might have an affinity with heavy machinery!) Free Career Test - Find a New Career with the MAPP Assessment Test | Assessment.com

 

You therefore need to choose a career or area to specialize in (not just one job) that you really like that also pays the bills. You can always use it to fund another hobby.

 

I love film, but the reality is digital is essential for practical professional photography. However, technology is changing so fast and always evolving, that I see no need to spend a fortune on a top of the line DSLR. Many pros are now using EVIL cameras like the Olympus OM-D because they appreciate their compact size. Leica M is a delight but the M9 is super expensive and not suited for all types of photography. Smaller compacts (Leica X1, X2, D-Lux 5) are also highly capable machines capable of professional results.

 

As an editor, some of the pictures submitted with features are much better than others. The basics are essential: pictures must be sharp, well-exposed, uncluttered and high resolution. Good composition makes an enormous difference. Travel, courses, books, all help.

 

Best of luck!

 

David

 

David Killick | Freelance Journalist and Photographer

[jaapv]

Free Career Test - Find a New Career with the MAPP Assessment Test | Assessment.com

 

 

 

Just for fun I ran through that test for myself. I have seldom seen such a load of baloney - Meet the new truck driver without creative impulses and with lack of ability to understand detail....

[honcho]

......

It's film I love and its surrealism that drives me, but is that going to get me a job? Probably not, its digital that brings home the bacon. I've come across enough money to be considering new equipment so should I really be looking at R8s or should I be buying something like a Nikon D7000 and be focusing on studio work?

 

Sorry about that big chunk of hazy thoughts and uncertainty, I feel as though I need some outside input so anything any of you have to add would really mean a lot!

 

One thing you will learn very quickly and possibly quite painfully is that your degree is worth Jack Sh!t in the real world of GP photography. If you are having to ask questions about whether to shoot film or digital to survive as a photographer, I suggest you try to determine which day of the week this is first. If that sounds harsh, I'm afraid that is the reality of what you face. Professional photography, ie where you hope to make a living from selling your ability and your work, is definitely not a playground for hazy dreamers!

 

You've had advice here to search for specialism. In your case, it would seem to be good advice as you have a keen interest in film-based photography. If you have any ability as a photographer, you may have some success in the right niche area. Identify it and you won't have to ask the other questions in your OP ever again, regardless of whether you can make a living from it or not.

 

I wish you luck and hope the coursework was worth it for you.