Correction lens/Glasses advise needed for my Leica M9

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

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Guys, I was measured for prescription progressive contact lenses and tried them for the first time yesterday but they were horrible, I was ok with the close part but my distance vision was terrible (I was very disappointed as I was hopping this was going to be my end of shooting without switching from wearing glasses to see the dials on the camera to taking them off to shoot)

Anyway I guess my only other option is getting a correction lens to brighten up the viewfinder and stick with reading glasses to see the camera dials, unless someone else on this forum can recommend something else...............the lady in the glasses shop said that progressive lenses would not be recommended as it would be hard to find the right spot on the glasses when looking through the viewfinder

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[Jeff S]

Eyes not only vary by person, but so do tolerance levels and preferences for various solutions. This 2007 thread is a common discussion; many others will come up using the search box. Here is another.

 

My eyes require correction for distance and astigmatism, and are also sensitive to light. As a result, I always wear prescription sunglasses outdoors, which fortunately allow me to see the focus patch clearly, view distant objects and still let me see the camera dials. Diopters don't suit for me, as I'd have to wear my prescription sunglasses for distance anyway. I also don't much like magnifiers, which I find reduce contrast and are not without compromise (and magnifiers only make sense if eyes are first corrected).

 

Others like contacts, diopters, progressive glasses or lenses, and now there is also the option of the Walter RX Eyepiece for those with astigmatism. Whatever works. This often requires experimentation, and some patience, to land on the best alternative. A good optician can provide lenses and/or diopters for testing, and a Leica dealer will allow experimentation with magnifiers.

 

Good luck.

 

Jeff

[lars_bergquist]

I have strong oversightedness and wear progressive specs, which I use without problems on my M9. You should not need or use extra correction lenses. I use my specs for everything.

 

But there is a learning curve for progressives. It is a matter of unconscious co-ordination of eyes and head movements, to see a thing (say, a Leica finder) through the right part of the lenses. So persevere! In a few days, you will learn the trick. It is just like learning to ride a bike.

 

The old man from the Bifocal Age

[jaapv]

Guys, I was measured for prescription progressive contact lenses and tried them for the first time yesterday but they were horrible, I was ok with the close part but my distance vision was terrible (I was very disappointed as I was hopping this was going to be my end of shooting without switching from wearing glasses to see the dials on the camera to taking them off to shoot)

Anyway I guess my only other option is getting a correction lens to brighten up the viewfinder and stick with reading glasses to see the camera dials, unless someone else on this forum can recommend something else...............the lady in the glasses shop said that progressive lenses would not be recommended as it would be hard to find the right spot on the glasses when looking through the viewfinder

I guess the lady from the glasses shop is an experienced RF photographer?

Many members use progressive glasses with success. Or get the appropriate diopter, which others, me included, prefer. See the M9 FAQ or any of the many threads on the subject.

It doesn't sound as if those glasses were very correctly fitted. The idea is to see well at various distances, infinity included.

The distance you need for the viewfinder is 2 m. btw.

[250swb]

I use progressive lenses in my glasses and they are perfect, allowing me to see through the viewfinder, the distance, and then the controls of the camera. No problems at all with the view in the viewfinder, with flexible frames I can even see the 28mm framelines at a push.

 

But like I would assume is the case with progressive contact lenses, they do take a little while to get used to, you need to give it time and your eye/brain will automatically start to look through the correct part of the lens. This is not camera specific, it is normal day to day use, such as driving, reading, etc. When you can do those you can use any camera with progressive lenses.

 

I have no experience with the contact lens option because contacts just aren't suitable for me with work, but either way, contacts or glasses, they are much better than having to keep taking your glasses off to look through an adjusted viewfinder. This really slows down picture making and spoils the spirit of a simple fast camera such as an M9.

 

Steve

[andybarton]

I tried both varifocal glasses and bi-focal contact lenses last year.

 

The glasses were terrible and positively dangerous for driving and the hard gas-permeable contact lenses (necessary to correct astigmatism) languish in their case on the shelf. Despite wearing normal g-p lenses for many years several years ago, I just can't get used to them again.

 

I am back to wearing my distance glasses, which are fine for using cameras with, but have to take them off for reading, or typing on an iPad...

 

I am going to have to go to traditional bi-focals soon, before I go made with taking my glasses on and off.

 

You have to spend money and be prepared to right it off, finding the right solution for you.

[jdlaing]

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Guys, I was measured for prescription progressive contact lenses and tried them for the first time yesterday but they were horrible, I was ok with the close part but my distance vision was terrible (I was very disappointed as I was hopping this was going to be my end of shooting without switching from wearing glasses to see the dials on the camera to taking them off to shoot)

Anyway I guess my only other option is getting a correction lens to brighten up the viewfinder and stick with reading glasses to see the camera dials, unless someone else on this forum can recommend something else...............the lady in the glasses shop said that progressive lenses would not be recommended as it would be hard to find the right spot on the glasses when looking through the viewfinder

 

I use progressives and they work fine on my viewfinder.

 

A question for you?

 

Are your contacts by any chance mono vision? IE: are both lenses the same magnification?

That's the only thing I can figure that would change one eye that much from glasses.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I use progressives and they work fine on my viewfinder.

 

A question for you?

 

Are your contacts by any chance mono vision? IE: are both lenses the same magnification?

That's the only thing I can figure that would change one eye that much from glasses.

 

No they are both different. One of the other guys uses narrow lenses and looks over the top to soot and looks down to look at the dials and menu

[jdlaing]

No they are both different. One of the other guys uses narrow lenses and looks over the top to soot and looks down to look at the dials and menu

 

Aha!

 

Your contacts are set for mono vision.

In other words the eye doctor has you set up to use one eye for distance and one eye for near.

 

Short of using regular progressives, bi or tri focal glasses I think you may need a diopter lens change for the viewfinder.

 

On another note.......have you tried walking down a flight of stairs with those new contacts yet?

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Aha!

 

Your contacts are set for mono vision.

In other words the eye doctor has you set up to use one eye for distance and one eye for near.

 

Short of using regular progressives, bi or tri focal glasses I think you may need a diopter lens change for the viewfinder.

 

On another note.......have you tried walking down a flight of stairs with those new contacts yet?

I went to the Leica store in KL and tried all the Diopter lenses that he had (he does not have the +1) and to be honiest they didnt make enough of a difference to make me go WOW I need one of those..............but saying that the Leica store in KL is dark and I think that when I get back home I will go and try these diopters again but outside in the daylight this time

[Rick]

NDWgolf, it would be interesting to know what fitting method your doctor employed. There are many options the doctor can utilize to fit the presbyopic patient. Although, you mention progressive contact lenses, they could be any number of, or combinations of, different types of lenses.

 

There are, for example, lenses that have center focus with a near annulus of near power around the central area. And there are lenses that have near center and distance annulus. There are fresnel lenses, and zone lenses, and there are translating bifocal contact lenses.

 

Some doctors mix and match the lenses to give overall satisfactory vision. One eye may be weighted more for distance and the other one for near. All in all, there is no perfect solution. But, solutions more suited for the rangefinder patients exist and they may be exclusive of what your doctor chose for you. All in all, bifocal soft contact lenses are a compromise.

 

Gas permeable hard contact lenses can also work well. Gas permeable lenses offer some better options for some patients. Generally, for patients with more astigmatism, GP contacts offer better visual acuity. Soft bifocal contact lenses would be more suited to somebody with low visual expectations, never the RF patient. The low contrast sensitivity of this solution would drive the RF user nuts. Patients with little or no astigmatism may do well with soft mono vision contact lenses if, they never use a RF camera.

 

There are other variables as well. It is not just an optical problem. Good contact lens fitters also consider the physiology of the eye and the health of the eye. Poor tear chemistry or eye disease such as Dry Eye or Acne Rosacea can affect both the optics and the comfort of lens wear, for example. Many more need to be considered as well.

 

Poor fitting technique with GP contacts will surely lead to discomfort. The skill of the fitter for patients with astigmatism is directly related to comfort and vision. There are fewer and fewer good GP fitters left anymore.

 

All of this is more complex than I can go into here. It is not just an optical problem. It is much more complex because, we are dealing with the visual system. Both geometric optics and physiological optics come into play. It is more complex than just buying a pair of "progressive" lenses and extrapolating it to everyone's case or, understanding what works well for you and assuming it is best for everyone.

 

Maybe, if you can provide some details of your perception and age and the health of your eyes I can make a suggestion to help you in the right direction.

[Carduelis]

Not wishing to sound pretentious, about one year ago I had Lasik eye surgery after 40 years of wearing spectacles, hard, gas permeable and more recently soft contact lenses. My level of shortsightedness was -9 diop left eye; -7 diop right eye and was pushing the boundaries of such surgery (about -10 diop). I bring it to your attention, because my eyesight has improved beyond the level of wearing spectacles/ contact lenses. The world is more sharply defined and vivid and makes photography even more appealing. If your eyes are suitable and you are willing to accept a very small level of risk associated with surgery, I would recommend it. With having presbyopia, the left eye was lasered to -1 diop (for near vision) and the right eye to 0 diop (for distance vision). This monovision treatment is working well so far and I am getting the best of both worlds.

[andyedward]

Not wishing to sound pretentious, about one year ago I had Lasik eye surgery after 40 years of wearing spectacles, hard, gas permeable and more recently soft contact lenses. My level of shortsightedness was -9 diop left eye; -7 diop right eye and was pushing the boundaries of such surgery (about -10 diop). I bring it to your attention, because my eyesight has improved beyond the level of wearing spectacles/ contact lenses. The world is more sharply defined and vivid and makes photography even more appealing. If your eyes are suitable and you are willing to accept a very small level of risk associated with surgery, I would recommend it. With having presbyopia, the left eye was lasered to -1 diop (for near vision) and the right eye to 0 diop (for distance vision). This monovision treatment is working well so far and I am getting the best of both worlds.

 

I would like to see the results of several independent longitudinal studies on laser eye surgery before I begin to consider it, but irrespective of their outcome, the "very small level of risk" remains too high.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Maybe, if you can provide some details of your perception and age and the health of your eyes I can make a suggestion to help you in the right direction.

Sir,

I will be happy to show you my recent perception, but I will need to do it tomorrow as I am on an Oil Rig right now and I will have to get my wife to email it to me. As soon as i get it I will post it up.

Something to Chew over while I am waiting for it;

When I was 9 years old I was shot in my left eye with a catapult and was basically blind until I was 35 when I went and had the cataract removed. After the cataract surgery I ended up with vision in my left eye but it was not great, it was 100% better that what I had before but most things that I see out of my left eye is slightly blurred. Anyway my feeling is, is that I have lived for 43 years without any good vision in my left eye and near perfect vision in my right eye. So I am happy if they can correct my left eye with surgery so that I end up using my left eye for reading (better still seeing the dials and menu on my new Leica) and use my right eye for everything else.

Anyway I will get back with you all tomorrow with my perception

[pico]

Thanks, Rick, for elaborating upon the complexity of corrective vision. I have not found any optometrist who explained it that way.

 

Aside - I've been waiting six weeks for my new eyeglasses. My prescription is, apparently, complex. About half the time new glasses have to be sent back to be remade. This time the glasses went back twice, and today I will find out whether the third remake is adequate. My vision cannot be corrected to 20/20, or so I am told, so close is adequate. (And they are dauntingly expensive! I mentioned that once and the optometrist said, "This coming from a Leica owner?")

 

For our friend with basically one eye - it is a wonder how we adapt, isn't it? The fact that I maintained a career as a photographer and camera-man for video with terrible vision is sometimes surprising. Good luck to you!

[bocaburger]

I'm nearsighted to the tune of -4.25, have .75 cyl astigmatism, and currently require a +2 "add" for reading. I wear progressives and use my M9 without any problem or eyepiece diopters. Same with my Canons, diopter set at the neutral mark.

 

When I first got progressives I had a terrible time with them, and the optician at Lenscrafters told me it was my fault, that I needed to relax and adapt. After a month of hell, I happened to speak with a family friend who happens to be an optometrist in another country, and who told me to try Varilux lenses (Zeiss was suggested also, but at the time those were not available in the US). I asked my optometrist about the Varilux (Lenscrafters doesn't carry them), and she (works in the Lenscrafter store) said "it's just a brand, they're all about the same." But I took my friend's advice and I found a place in town that was licensed to dispense Varilux.

 

Long story short: The moment I put the Variluxes on I could see perfectly at all distances. Been using them ever since. I think also part of it is that optician knew how to measure them properly and then fit the frames correctly, whereas I suspect the clown at Lenscrafters did not, and that added to the problem. So if you aren't getting along with your progressives, consider switching brands and opticians.

[Rick]

When I was 9 years old I was shot in my left eye with a catapult and was basically blind until I was 35 when I went and had the cataract removed. After the cataract surgery I ended up with vision in my left eye but it was not great, it was 100% better that what I had before but most things that I see out of my left eye is slightly blurred. Anyway my feeling is, is that I have lived for 43 years without any good vision in my left eye and near perfect vision in my right eye. So I am happy if they can correct my left eye with surgery so that I end up using my left eye for reading (better still seeing the dials and menu on my new Leica) and use my right eye for everything else.[/font][/color]

Anyway I will get back with you all tomorrow with my perception

 

It always comes down to a case by case presentation. This is a good example of several points.

 

It is important when making suggestions to others like, progressive glasses or more radically laser refractive surgery, that you have an understanding of the patients entire case history. An essentially monocular patient will have special considerations and it is now apparent why NDWgolf is challenged by his new contact lenses. I know people try to help with their answers but, the suggestions are almost always wrong and lack anything more than a superficial understanding of a very complex problem. This is why on any of these threads I always ask the poster to provide at least his Rx and a case history before I can make any suggestion of a direction to look into.

 

I would bet that most of the posters here that are having problems with glasses and contacts when using the RF have their own special cases, such as, large degrees of uncorrected spherical and/or astigmatic correction. Also, it would not be uncommon to see medical issues as well such as early Macular Degeneration, Cataract, Amblyopia, Dry Eye, just to mention a few. All of these thing must be considered when deciding with the patient on the best corrective strategy for them.

 

Also, just from this thread, we have learned that not even all progressive lenses are equal, not to mention the fitting technique of the optician making the measurements which are so critical when making progressive lens glasses. Varilux does indeed make some of the best progressive lenses. Right now the Varilux Phisio Enhanced is a wonderful digitally designed progressive that has to be the best on the market. I wear it. I have just ordered their new version and I will be testing it in the next few weeks. Zeiss and Rodenstock also make good progressive lenses as well but, I have not found them to as good as the new Varilux but, I will say that I have not prescribed them in several years so, I may not be a good judge... just know what works for my patients.

 

My prescription is: -6.00 -3.75 x 180 in each eye and I require a +2.25 for 40cm. I am one of the nightmare patients for doctors! I have fit myself over the years and as you can imagine it has been the best education to actually "see" what other patients experience.

 

My solution, for me, has been a high Dk back surface toric gas permeable contact lens with a significantly large diameter of 11.00mm. This is the only method that has provided centration of the lens for me as I have an eccentric apical point to my cornea and all lenses ride off temporally on my cornea. To correct the full toric curves on the back of the lens I had to add a second toric surface to the front of the lens. I also had to increase the central optic zone to enhance the area that I look through because, the lens still rides about 1.5mm temporally. The peripheral curves are complex as well as they help center the lens and add to good physiology of the fit. My left eye is similar but is corrected to give me +1.50D of near power. These lenses are extended wear and I sleep in them and wear them continuously.

 

So, you can hopefully see that there is more to fitting contacts or glasses than what meets the eye. If, anyone wants to ask a question I will carefully try and give answers but, it is difficult to do it in this type of situation. I suggest trying to find a good Optometrist and consider changing if they don't seem to be able to meet a high level of expectation.

[Jeff S]

And to add ever so slightly to Rick's already useful info, different people have different likes and dislikes, and different tolerance and comfort levels with potential solutions, regardless of how technically appropriate that solution might be given that person's eye characteristics and case history. And only actual experience will reveal those issues.

 

Jeff

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[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Guys here is my prescription below

Your prescription as below:

 

Sph. Cyl. Axis. Add

 

R. +0.25. +1.75

 

L. +2.00. -1.25. 70. +1.75

 

I am now having second thoughts about getting the surgery done, if the left eye can be corrected for just seeing the dials and menu on my Leica then every time I go out shooting I will just pop in the contact into my left eye and bobs your uncle:)

[Rick]

Hi NDWgolf,

 

If, you don't mind I need to know a little more about your eyes:

 

You stated; +2.00. -1.25. 70. +1.75 is your left Rx. Is that in the contact lens or spectacles? Are your contacts progressive or mono vision? Can I assume that you have no contact in the right eye or is it a bifocal contact lens and if so, is it tack-shart at distance?

 

What is your best corrected visual acuity at far with your left eye?

 

Do you have binocular vision (i.e. do you fuse both eyes and can see 3D)? I am interested because you stated that you had a traumatic cataract from a very young age and your visual system may or may not have developed the ability to use your eyes together. This is important when deciding about mono vision.

 

What is your age? I can guesstimate, from Donder's Table, how much accommodative amplitude (focusing) you have left, in the right eye if I know your age. Your left eye has almost no accommodative ability because I'm assuming your IOL (intraocular lens implant) is a fixed lens and not one of the accommodating types?

 

If, your left cornea was scared from the accident it may make contact lens wear more difficult. Are contact lenses even comfortable to wear in your left eye?

 

Do you have dry eyes or allergies that might make contacts a poor choice?

 

Do you have any medical eye conditions such as, cataract or macular degeneration, for example?

 

Have you tried progressive glasses and found them difficult to adapt to?

 

These are a few of the question we ask patients in our clinic in order to get an idea of what fitting methods may be available to them. We know one very important piece of information already; you better have tack-sharp vision in the RF eye. And, you are not going to be able to focus the RF as well at near with your naked eye because you have lost a large degree of your accommodation with birthdays. And, you right eye is slightly hyperopic and needs to focus 0.25D at ∞. That makes near vision harder for you than others.

 

Rick