ymc226 Posted July 18, 2012 Share #1 Posted July 18, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I've read how sharp and perfect the present 50 Summilux ASPH, ordered a new one and just got it this week. I tried it today and was disappointed in shots being out of focus. I thought it was operator error and blamed it on camera shake as I took shots in available light. I then put the camera on a tripod via a RRS bracket, and shot these pictures using a homemade focusing chart angled at 45 degrees at slightly more than a meter distance. (numbers to the right are farther away then numbers to the left). The lens retrofocuses wide open and improves as it is stopped down. I focused on the center line using the Leica 1.4 eyepiece magnifier. Top left f 1.4, top right f 2.8, bottom left f 5.6, bottom right f 8 It's night so I can't go outside and try at greater distances to see if this effect changes . Is this normal behavior or do I need to send this back to Leica NJ for adjustment? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/183856-is-this-very-wrong-for-a-new-summilux-50-asph/?do=findComment&comment=2065141'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Hi ymc226, Take a look here Is this very wrong for a new Summilux 50 ASPH?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
brianv Posted July 18, 2012 Share #2 Posted July 18, 2012 It is either the lens or the camera: it should certainly be "spot-on" for use. What camera do you use, and what lenses do you use with your camera currently? Sometimes it is necessary to send the lens and the camera in together, or to have a lens optimized for film or digital. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoskeptic Posted July 18, 2012 Share #3 Posted July 18, 2012 Yep, Ming Thein says in his blog that the camera should be calibrated just for this special lens. I don't know what happens if you shoot multiple lenses, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 18, 2012 Share #4 Posted July 18, 2012 As discussed in other threads, the general procedure by Leica Service is to optimize the camera to a standard, and each lens to a standard; the camera and lens are not normally optimized as a pair. The Service Dept. often requests that camera and lens(es) be sent in together, but this is so that they can check all components against their respective standards. Of course special requests can be made, but the general practice often seems misunderstood. Likewise, confusion often exists between focus shift and front/back focus errors. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymc226 Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share #5 Posted July 18, 2012 I will use this new lens with my M9P which I used recently confirming accurate focus with both the 35 Summicron ASPH and 21 Super Elmar ASPH. I also confirmed focus in the past using my 75 Summicron ASPH, 90 Summicron ASPH, and 50 Noctilux ASPH. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/2015777-post29.html As such, I don't want to have the camera adjusted since I feel it works well with the majority of my lenses. Is focus issue a known problem with the 50 Summilux ASPH? I've read on this forum that one does not have both a camera body and lens calibrated for one another but each to a known standard so many lenses and bodies can be used accurately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymc226 Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share #6 Posted July 18, 2012 Likewise, confusion often exists between focus shift and front/back focus errors. Jeff Jeff, Is this normal behavior for this lens? If so, than the limitation of retro-focus at near distances wide open should be advertised more openly by Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 18, 2012 Share #7 Posted July 18, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) If you're confident with your testing procedure and with the accuracy of your camera and other lenses, then just send the 50 in for calibration. (See my post preceding yours.) Doesn't matter how common the issue is, but you're certainly not the first (as a search on this or other lenses will reveal). Jeff Edit...just saw your new post. Focus shift is more common than many think (common with fast lenses)...many think, for instance, that the 35 Summilux asph (before FLE) was unique in that regard for fast Leica 35's, even though tests will often show focus shift even with the 35 Summicron asph (Mine does at f2.8 and f4, just as Sean Reid's sample...but not a practical problem in real prints.) Best to send the lens in if you're not sure or comfortable on front/back focus. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 18, 2012 Share #8 Posted July 18, 2012 I am aware that some level of focus shift at some focussing distance is common in any Leica lens (apparently). I hate not having confidence in my gear, or at least not understanding why an image is out of focus - my own errors I can accept. So, I have set up a tripod and tested all my lenses on my M9-P at 45 degrees at all apertures (at 1 metre). The only lens which was out was sent back for calibration (together with coding). My Summilux 50 ASPH has not shown any back focus or focus shift at any distance. It looks to me like your lens needs adjustment, which I find strange - all of my ASPH lenses made in the digital era have been spot on, as I recall. I have taken the opportunity to send the Noct back with my M9-P when it went to have the sensor looked at. The Summilux has been perfect. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 18, 2012 Share #9 Posted July 18, 2012 It is not unknown for this lens to need focus adjustment out of the box. Just send it in. It is not easy to test focus reliably as nobody has as elaborate a testing rig as is really needed at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Posted July 18, 2012 Share #10 Posted July 18, 2012 Is focus issue a known problem with the 50 Summilux ASPH? I wasn't aware that this would be a known "problem" with the 50 asph - most tend to work right out of the box as intended - but as Jaap says just send it. Mine, which I bought used, works flawlessly. Or at least so I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nelly Posted July 18, 2012 Share #11 Posted July 18, 2012 I posted just the other day on the forum that I was interested in buying this lens and had one on hold for me and was seeking advice from other forum members as I had heard some new copies arrived with back focus problems and a stiff focus ring. I am now waiting for my new 50mm summilux to arrive on Friday and will be interested to see how mine performs. Hope your problem gets resolved quickly so you may start shooting with your lens Neale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 18, 2012 Share #12 Posted July 18, 2012 Yep, Ming Thein says in his blog that the camera should be calibrated just for this special lens. I don't know what happens if you shoot multiple lenses, Consider if you had a dozen lenses and one camera - which lens would you have the camera calibrated to, and where would that leave the other eleven? Cameras are NOT calibrated for one specific lens, nor lenses calibrated for one specific camera. They are calibrated to the reference standard for each part (camera or lens), at which point, they will work properly together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted July 18, 2012 Share #13 Posted July 18, 2012 Exactly what I always thought. I read that the very earliest Leicas did need to have lenses calibrated for each camera. However, since the 30s interchangeable lenses have been able to be used on every Leica rangefinder, or at least screwmount lenses have been, while M mount lenses can be used on any M camera. Adjustment is not required. It would be very bothersome indeed if you had to return each lens and camera body to have it adjusted. And very off-putting. The turnaround time between New Zealand and Solms, for example, is three months during which time you would be without your camera. I have never encountered a problem with film Leicas. However, I find the M9 is trickier to focus. I understand that has to do with digital sensors having less tolerance for focusing than film. Perhaps somebody has a technical explanation why this should be the case. The 45 degree test is a good idea. I shall put it into practice when I have the opportunity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 18, 2012 Share #14 Posted July 18, 2012 Digital is more demanding of focus because the sensor is flat, whereas film isn't. Film also has a thickness (albeit, not very thick), but sensors don't. This means that the focussing tolerances are much more critical for lenses used on digital bodies than those used on film bodies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted July 18, 2012 Share #15 Posted July 18, 2012 This means that the focussing tolerances are much more critical for lenses used on digital bodies than those used on film bodies. This is true but I also believe that the digital workflow itself (cleaner files than film scans, 100% magnification, etc.) has encouraged many of us to be more critical of focussing inaccuracy. Most of the inaccuracy and miscalibration we now find unacceptable would pass muster on a 35mm slide or negative. Getting back on topic, my first copy of this lens (which I bought in 2005) had to go back to Solms twice to be properly calibrated. Interestingly, the OP's example seems to be front focussing which I think is unusual with this lens but not with M9P bodies. If he wasn't so confident about the body I'd have wagered that the problem lay with the RF not the lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 18, 2012 Share #16 Posted July 18, 2012 Using rulers and other focusing charts is the best way to become paranoid folks. If your pics are sharp there's nothing broken to fix IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted July 18, 2012 Share #17 Posted July 18, 2012 I will use this new lens with my M9P which I used recently confirming accurate focus with both the 35 Summicron ASPH and 21 Super Elmar ASPH. I also confirmed focus in the past using my 75 Summicron ASPH, 90 Summicron ASPH, and 50 Noctilux ASPH. The three areas which might need adjustment are: Camera bayonet to sensor distance. Camera rangefinder. Lens. From your above post it appears extremely likely that your camera body is in correct adjustment and is operating as it should - so its your new Summilux which now needs to be adjusted I'm afraid. It shouldn't be a big deal and once its done it should be fine - mine has been spot on since I bought it a couple of years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ymc226 Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share #18 Posted July 18, 2012 Using rulers and other focusing charts is the best way to become paranoid folks. If your pics are sharp there's nothing broken to fix IMHO. I agree completely. I just looked at pictures taken about 4 feet away of my daughter using the Summilux and they seem very out of focus, not just a little. Looking back on photos taken 1 1/2 weeks ago while on vacation using both the 35 Summicron and 21 Super Elmar, very crisp. I printed some up and my wife and sister-in-law commented on how sharp and 3D looking the photos were. I called Leica NJ since I work within driving distance and told them I want to take this lens on vacation in 2 weeks and they were very accommodating. I'll bring it in tomorrow morning and they would have a technician look at it to see if they can adjust it while I wait or if more work needs to be performed, they will expedite it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPizzzle Posted July 18, 2012 Share #19 Posted July 18, 2012 Consider if you had a dozen lenses and one camera - which lens would you have the camera calibrated to, and where would that leave the other eleven? Cameras are NOT calibrated for one specific lens, nor lenses calibrated for one specific camera. They are calibrated to the reference standard for each part (camera or lens), at which point, they will work properly together. This makes sense. I'm confused however as to why some people who order a new body and lens still need to send it in for calibration-shouldn't they both be set to the reference standard at the factory? I find the calibration issues to be the worst part of the Leica experience. It's unfortunate to have to send a lens to service after spending a great deal of effort and money to procure it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 18, 2012 Share #20 Posted July 18, 2012 Aren't we being a bit hyper-critical here? I have no idea how large the target image was (are the lines centimeter marks?) nor what colour the light was (tungsten?), but regardless I rather doubt the focusing issue can be seen in a full frame photo at a realistic distance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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