CalArts 99 Posted June 15, 2012 Share #21 Posted June 15, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...... and get better at photography and processing Yep, that's pretty much all that matters in the end. And the only thing that's of any real value after all is said and done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 Hi CalArts 99, Take a look here Stefan Daniel Interview Offers Clues. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rosuna Posted June 15, 2012 Share #22 Posted June 15, 2012 Perhaps the M10 will be evolution and not revolution, the 'splash' will be a more affordable mid tier product. That is OK for me... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted June 15, 2012 Share #23 Posted June 15, 2012 Nice interview. I like the question and the answer about older lenses. The answer about film camera production is exactly the same as Dr Kaufmann's statement to the UK press in Berlin. However only the comment about the demise of film was reported so I don't see any back tracking here. What is it with Stefan Daniel and that telephone though...!? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted June 15, 2012 Share #24 Posted June 15, 2012 I do hope the new lenses build on the qualities of the older lenses and add not trade for resolution and contrast. I read an interesting one liner from Erwin that was food for thought. Suggesting that if you rely too heavily on the computer the answer is bland and evenhandedly good. I'd trade a corner of haze for something more interesting any day if the week.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted June 15, 2012 Share #25 Posted June 15, 2012 There is not really a technical reason to shoot film. But an M Monochrom doesn’t smell film and doesn’t give you the limitation of only having 36 frames in your camera. There are still some emotional reasons why to use film. [...] Technically speaking there is no reason why you should shoot with film. Especially when you take our M Monochrom print service into account that we will offer for our M Monochrom customers. We do silver halide baryte papers, so the result is not an inkjet paper but a real photo developed in wet chemistry. What a load of bull. One would buy a digital camera to escape from the "smell" of film? He's apparently serious. Moreover, the "limitation" in shooting film Daniel describes doesn't exist; just bring more rolls. Are there emotional reasons to use digital or is that just done thoughtlessly? E contrario it is. Sure, I'll get an M Monochrom. Or wait, perhaps I'll use the money to shoot and develop some 800-1000 rolls or whatever. Yes, this has been discussed in thread after thread already but a binary statement like this from a Leica official is simply inflammatory. Again Leica does its best - presumably for marketing reasons to hippify its "old retired man who sold the house" appearance - to brush off its film photographers as archaic. At least this guy didn't wear a black t-shirt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted June 15, 2012 Share #26 Posted June 15, 2012 I'd trade a corner of haze for something more interesting any day if the week.... There are plenty of programs, plug-ins, and profiles for something more interesting. I'd trade them for the optics of the APO 50mm any day of the week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 15, 2012 Share #27 Posted June 15, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think you're reading his comments around the wrong way. Its not people getting out of film because of the smell, but staying with it because they like the process. I will always have my M3 because I love the simplicity - all mechanical. But at the same time, I'm not really expecting film to offer any real image advantage over the M Monochrom. They'll be different, but when it comes to taking pictures, downloading them, manipulating them, and in the rare instances, printing the very good ones, I see no advantage to film, and a lot of hassle. Now, many will disagree with this for God knows how many reasons. But the fact remains that the image quality of the Monochrom is so good that IQ is not really the justification alone for staying with film. That is matched by camera production - 80 M9s a day; lucky to produce that many MPs & M7s combined in a year. Nice interview from Herr Daniels, as usual. Coherent, informative and rational. Nice to see the X2 - M9 gap being filled. As I've speculated before, the M9/ Monochrom cameras will remain what they are - upgrades etc to solve problems, but effectively the same thing - manual focus etc. A dead end, in some respects. Wider appeal camera with electronic viewfinder, video, AF etc in the $2,000 to $6,000 gap. Micro 4/3? We've all taken previous comments to heart about the limitations on further lens lines. This has meant the any new camera needs to take M and/or R lenses. Two new products at Photokina? Seems the interviewer was putting words in his mouth ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 15, 2012 Share #28 Posted June 15, 2012 Except he didn't say there was "no demand." Exactly. So why worry that “it's reliant on sales”? Of course it is, just as it should be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 15, 2012 Share #29 Posted June 15, 2012 Sometimes the public doesn't know what their demands are until they are told? For whatever reason there still is some demand for film cameras, so apparently the public doesn’t need to be told. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
philipus Posted June 15, 2012 Share #30 Posted June 15, 2012 With respect, I disagree that Daniel's statement about smell and film can be read differently. It is a simple textual interpretation. He may have meant it differently but I find little in the text to support that. I treat film-based photos and digital photos the same way in terms of post-processing. I edit and adjust more or less the same in Photoshop to get the results I want. I didn't mean to get into a debate about film vs digital, the reason for the MM etc. I just wanted to point out that in terms of accuracy in the message delivered, there is room for improvement in what Daniel said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 15, 2012 Share #31 Posted June 15, 2012 One would buy a digital camera to escape from the "smell" of film? I wonder how you arrived at that interpretation. That’s not at all what he meant – just the opposite really. “Smell” refers to an emotional quality associated with film, something which has photographers keep shooting film rather than switching to digital. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted June 15, 2012 Share #32 Posted June 15, 2012 I think you're reading his comments around the wrong way. Its not people getting out of film because of the smell, but staying with it because they like the process ... Correct. He is saying in his opinion there is no technical reason to shoot film but plenty of emotional reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted June 15, 2012 Share #33 Posted June 15, 2012 I didn't mean to get into a debate about film vs digital, the reason for the MM etc. I just wanted to point out that in terms of accuracy in the message delivered, there is room for improvement in what Daniel said. Most probably the lack of accuracy or inflection is in the reporting... aka misquoted or mistranslated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 15, 2012 Share #34 Posted June 15, 2012 If you scan and photoshop film-based photographs you lose most of the reasons to shoot film imo. With respect, I disagree that Daniel's statement about smell and film can be read differently. It is a simple textual interpretation. He may have meant it differently but I find little in the text to support that. I treat film-based photos and digital photos the same way in terms of post-processing. I edit and adjust more or less the same in Photoshop to get the results I want. I didn't mean to get into a debate about film vs digital, the reason for the MM etc. I just wanted to point out that in terms of accuracy in the message delivered, there is room for improvement in what Daniel said. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 15, 2012 Share #35 Posted June 15, 2012 Well, you cannot expect them to build products for which there is no demand. Th moment Leica declare the film cameras are no more, demand will increase 1000000% Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted June 15, 2012 Share #36 Posted June 15, 2012 Sometimes the public doesn't know what their demands are until they are told? That might apply to a new product, but I can't work out how it can apply to a well-established one. I'm happy to take him at face value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted June 16, 2012 Share #37 Posted June 16, 2012 That might apply to a new product, but I can't work out how it can apply to a well-established one. I'm happy to take him at face value. Me too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 16, 2012 Share #38 Posted June 16, 2012 Exactly. So why worry that “it's reliant on sales”? Of course it is, just as it should be. Yes it is pretty obvious they aren't going to stupidly keep making them once orders stop. And I'm sure that they'd like to sell an MM to every one of those b/w film users. A technical reason to keep shooting film is that dense areas of film, such as skies, can be burned in to preserve detail or add drama. This is part of the character of film in a negative/printing process. Highlight detail is more limited with the MM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted June 16, 2012 Share #39 Posted June 16, 2012 One of the best Leica interviews for a while despite odd phraseology. "Clear this is". Actually good news for film users: "First of all, we’re still producing M7 and MP cameras. We’re producing them because there is a demand for it — small, but quite stable. As long as this demand exists we will also be making these cameras." And good news for those wanting new products, possibly a CSC/EVIL camera: "With the economic growth of Leica we are also aiming to fill these gaps with additional products. On the other hand I cannot make any statement about future products right now because it would be much too early. But it is our aim, our goal to have additional products and to extend our portfolio." I still think the MM is a decidedly off duck with limited market appeal. I am also concerned that skyrocketing prices will place Leica products increasingly out of reach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 16, 2012 Share #40 Posted June 16, 2012 I still think the MM is a decidedly off duck with limited market appeal. I am also concerned that skyrocketing prices will place Leica products increasingly out of reach. I've pretty much come to the conclusion I will fill my order. I see the M Monochrom as a bit of a full stop. This is where the traditional M ends, in my mind. Yes, there will be upgrades, new versions, but they will be the same basic theme. The M10 will be something else, with a cheaper, fill the gap brother. I still see the M9P & MM joining the M7 & MP as long stayers, faithful to the M3 line. As for prices, Leica has never been in reach for anyone but the rich enthusiast. The Japanese competition, to the extent it is competition, has always been a lot cheaper. The gap filler will provide a Leica solution for those wanting more than an X2, not wanting a Panasonic, and not being able to afford an M. The Titanium & Hermes Editions make my M9P feel like a bargain! The M10 will be more like USD 10K, than USD 7K, and will be a showcase, like the S3. The gap filler will make this easier. So, the M Monochrom is looking like a bargain - get two! Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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