M9, M9M, justifications and other such stuff

[Pangur Ban]

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You might also find the Summicron Asph is mandatory.

 

This hits the nail on the head for me: I've not seen photos from the MM using other lenses than this and the Summikux ASPH. Until I see what it can do with the sort of lenses I own (older Leica, new Zeiss and Voigtlander) I'm reserving judgement on its incremental benefits over the M9/M8. I'm really hoping it'll be stunning without needing the very latest lenses.

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[Pedro]

I hope you can persuade the parents to give the poor creature a less embarrasing name.

 

[tmldds]

I fail to understand the negativity toward a camera that is not even on the market yet. To me, it is revolutionary. I guess, if the price were to be just $3,999.99, a whole lot more folks would have been more receptive confused::confused.

 

Tri:)

[swamiji]

Do you know how the MM behaves with orange filter on? Just curious.

 

It's similar to film. There is no WB, except for filters. My Leica dealer had a demo day, where the Leica Rep brought one in.

 

Yes the spectral sensitivity is different, but the spectral sensitivity is different for different films. I did not have time to experiment much with filters except to say, it does make a difference. So when I get my own copy, I will play with filters until I find a good combination.

[jaapv]

There is an orange filter example on Leica's website. Looks like a pretty normal orange filter effect to me.

[philipus]

in the past 20 or 30 years the majority of my photography has been B/W...thousands of rolls of B/W film.

(...)

Now, shooting color digital is ok. But I find 90% of the time I grab a small compact for family snapshots and holidays.

(...)

I just can't get the idea of once again shooting true B/W out of my mind. Some of my best and most successful images were shot completely in monochrome as I just don't see in color when it comes to photography.

 

You've already given the justifications for your decision. Objectively, based on what you've said, it's the right decision.

 

On a sidenote, it is interesting (and somewhat disturbing) how many posts with a rather unpleasant tone the MM and the 50 APO have spawned. I wonder why.

 

There is an orange filter example on Leica's website. Looks like a pretty normal orange filter effect to me.

 

There's a concurrent thread which I can't find just now with a discussion about that photo as compared with a film photo shot through an orange filter.

[SpiritShooter]

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On a sidenote, it is interesting (and somewhat disturbing) how many posts with a rather unpleasant tone the MM and the 50 APO have spawned. I wonder why.

 

I tend not to focus on negative comments prior to folks getting actual hands on time with a camera. However, I would guess that quite a few of the naysayers would be singing a different tune had Leica announced this camera to retail for $2,995 like the D800.

 

In fact, I could be wrong, but I would venture to guess that there is a strong probability the pre-orders would have put Leica into a 3 year backlog.

 

Hey, it's all good.....otherwise we wouldn't have much to talk about....good or bad.

[LeicaPassion]

The MM is intriguing (high ISO/ sharpness), but I'm sitting on the sidelines until more real world experience is known. I don't understand the rush to judgement pro or con.

[jaapv]

You've already given the justifications for your decision. Objectively, based on what you've said, it's the right decision.

 

On a sidenote, it is interesting (and somewhat disturbing) how many posts with a rather unpleasant tone the MM and the 50 APO have spawned. I wonder why.

 

 

 

There's a concurrent thread which I can't find just now with a discussion about that photo as compared with a film photo shot through an orange filter.

Yes - but the point is that I am not all that interested in comparing with film - that is another medium with its own, different strengths. I tend to judge gear on what it can do, not on how it can imitate other processes.

[Frank Sellitto]

Yes - but the point is that I am not all that interested in comparing with film - that is another medium with its own, different strengths. I tend to judge gear on what it can do, not on how it can imitate other processes.

+1

[Messsucherkamera]

On a sidenote, it is interesting (and somewhat disturbing) how many posts with a rather unpleasant tone the MM and the 50 APO have spawned. I wonder why.

I have to admit that my first reaction to the prices assigned to the M/M and the 50/2 APO

was one of exasperation.

 

Why? Two new blockbuster pieces of gear from Solms - both of which inspire feverish, blind lust in Leica connoisseurs, both of which would be really swell to own - with

both prices orbiting in the ionosphere, well out of the reach of we mere mortals.

 

I soon got over my exasperation and began thinking in terms of "hmmmm, well maybe some day." Next came "hmmmmm, I wonder how I could fund the purchase of an M/M?

 

Finding or making a way to purchase an M/M or 50/2 APO is a lot more enjoyable and rewarding

than wallowing in bitterness and resentment because you can't buy one today. JMHO.

[IWC Doppel]

So tell me more about not being compelled to process the MM images?

 

Difficult to say why, but the raw images looked detailed, lowish contrast and a little flat. I guess the reason I didn't develop was they didn't attract my attention somehow. The 50 APO looked amazing before processing by comparison.

 

I can't comment on how things would change post processing and perhaps the raw settings might be changed in later software editions. In some ways it demonstrated to me that without fully getting to grips with post processing you won't appreciate or be able to compare the differences.

 

This was a quick gut reaction, just as was my experience of the 50 APO so means very little

 

But without further investigation, which would be much needed I covet the 50 APO and not the MM. I found the Thorsten video of B&W production fascinating as he often processes the jpg for B&W not raw !

 

I would try and see how you get on, if I had £6k burning a hole in my pocket I would be doing the same

[SpiritShooter]

It was one heck of a day and I needed a break. So I downloaded one of Jono Slack's Raw files from his website this afternoon. I processed it in LR4 and then exported it to Photoshop CS6.

 

I was truly concerned that without the use of color filters, I would not be able to make heads nor tails of the file. To my surprise, the image was easily adjusted for black, shadows and highlights.

 

Basically, a 15 minute mid-afternoon "quickie", but the effort was quite satisfying. I feel that shooting the camera without color filtration will provide a robust file with excellent dynamic range. This file will react to both local and global adjustments of areas that in the past would need colored filters.

 

Just my preliminary thoughts and really need to play more before I feel 100% comfortable that this camera will produce files that will work for me.

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[jaapv]

You are aware that both LR4 and CS^ use the same raw developer I suppose? The workflow raw developing in LR >> adjust in CS6 seems a waste of time to me.

[SpiritShooter]

You are aware that both LR4 and CS^ use the same raw developer I suppose? The workflow raw developing in LR >> adjust in CS6 seems a waste of time to me.

 

Yes, you are correct. However, I do a siginificant amount of local work on my images in PS that I have yet been able to do in LR. I am a design professional and as such, LR is like drawing with a crayon when I need a sketching pen.

 

Pixel level work is not something that I can do in LR.

 

On another note, in my testing and comparison, I converted a portrait recently shot using my M9. I then utilized colored filters in software to facilitate conversion. I used a red filter to give the model a porcelain skin look. I find that the results I got are superior to what I have been able to achieve with the MM file. I think that the MM will need color filters in front of the lens regardless of how good and how robust the file is.

 

Thanks

[bocaburger]

... I would guess that quite a few of the naysayers would be singing a different tune had Leica announced this camera to retail for $2,995 like the D800.

 

I'm not a naysayer, just someone who shoots b&w only a tiny minority of the time. So even if Leica had priced it at $995 I wouldn't buy it. But since you brought it up, charging 2 grand more than an M9 for one that can only shoot b&w seems bizarre. I'm not saying it should be less expensive, as it obviously has all the same mechanics and electronics as a color-sensor M9, but it would seem reasonable that they should be the same price.

[SJP]

............ (sigh)

 

As there are less 'B&W only' shooters than 'color and B&W', or 'color only', it is reasonable to expect the M9M turnover to be less than of the M9/M9P etc.

 

The overhead however is the same (sensors, other hardware components, advertising, pamphlets, software bundle, packaging) and possibly may be more. For instance the sensor is probably more expensive again via turnover/overhead.

 

So the higher price can be justified, at least in a relative sense.

 

As an aside, Leica has the game of 'more expensive' = 'more desirable' rather well optimized. If the M9(x) cost $2000 then perhaps less of them would be sold.

[jaapv]

Yes, you are correct. However, I do a siginificant amount of local work on my images in PS that I have yet been able to do in LR. I am a design professional and as such, LR is like drawing with a crayon when I need a sketching pen.

 

Pixel level work is not something that I can do in LR.

 

On another note, in my testing and comparison, I converted a portrait recently shot using my M9. I then utilized colored filters in software to facilitate conversion. I used a red filter to give the model a porcelain skin look. I find that the results I got are superior to what I have been able to achieve with the MM file. I think that the MM will need color filters in front of the lens regardless of how good and how robust the file is.

 

Thanks

I would not dream of telling a pro his workflow, but it occurred to me that the LR step seems superfluous.

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[lct]

+1

[Paul J]

Lightroom is a brilliant catalogue and editing/choosing/metadata/keywording tool. Great for getting edits together and for quick adjustments, rough drafts etc. I start there also. I've switched over to Lightroom from Capture One for RAW development for the M9 too.