250swb Posted May 31, 2012 Share #161 Â Posted May 31, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) But Leica cannot change the fact that the film business is in steady decline. . Â All that is happening to film is a shake out of the many types available, more than one available for every occasion isn't sustainable any more. But a steady decline is something that ends at zero, and is hyperbole. And while Leica may not be able to increase the sales of film from the low of recent years (other companies are managing to do that without them), they still sell products that film using photographers want, lenses for instance. So it is still staggering that any company employee should sow seeds of unfounded doubt and piss customers off. Â Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 31, 2012 Posted May 31, 2012 Hi 250swb, Take a look here AP interview with Dr Kaufmann. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted May 31, 2012 Share #162  Posted May 31, 2012 These statements and those about how Kaufmann's looks in a black tee-shirt and his utterance about — one can almost chose things at random — infect this thread with a nastiness that is not called for.  I agree... I'am amazed how a not so stunning statement, from an entepreneur who is not regarded and considered as a visionnaire or a top industry's trend panelist, can such discussions to arise : in the world of big numbers, the "death of film" is someway an acquired and "digested" fact... the niche companies which surely will continue to offer 35mm film for (I think) decades to come don't change this fact. The same applies to film Leicas... I don't think that Dr. Kaufmann's words will cause the small group of potential buyers of MP/M7 in the next months to change their minds... BTW, I think that if Leica would decide to abandon the film Ms production they can arrange a decent business with some external entity, to sell them all of the related designs, toolings, technology etc : coupled with the small (but till enduring) collateral business of mechanical spare parts and related services, there is room to maintain a decent business... not so dissimilar from the many small mechanical shops that (in Germany, Italy, England...) still make spares and/or whole subassemblies of certain legendary motorbikes and cars... in my town I know a local company who regularly MAKES (I mean makes, from scratch) camshafts and engineshafts for various old Porsches... both as spares as well as parts provided to a German factory which assembles and sells 356 and Old Carrera engines... Of course, the problem could be the BRANDING in itself... if Leica will continue to exist as a Company, the problem of a MP made from an external entity WITH (or without ?) the Leica logo, must be managed... but if there is the will to go this way, some solution can surely be found. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted May 31, 2012 Share #163 Â Posted May 31, 2012 My guess is he didn't think about offending anyone but was just basing his statement on the knowledge of how few film cameras Leica expects to sell in the future. Related, I see that B&H still shows the Canon EOS 1V film camera as in stock but it is not on Canon's web site.Nikon still shows 2 SLRs... FM10 and F6. Â As for, "All that is happening to film is a shake out of the many types available, more than one available for every occasion isn't sustainable any more." Unfortunately there are several types and ISOs that are not available at all any more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 31, 2012 Share #164 Â Posted May 31, 2012 Well, for all that a camera store here still has new R8 cameras in stock... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 31, 2012 Share #165 Â Posted May 31, 2012 I don't think the fact that the shop has new R8s is any indication of a healthy film market. Far from it. They must have been on the shelves for 10 years now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 31, 2012 Share #166 Â Posted May 31, 2012 They must have had huge stocks. A year ago I bought one of their last two new M6 classics, another forum member got the other one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40mm f/2 Posted May 31, 2012 Share #167 Â Posted May 31, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Kodak stopped to produce slide film already. "Long term" statements of a company in chapter 11 are more about presenting a financial "outlook" than a realistic view of production plans. Fuji has declining film sales but increasing pricing. If the film theater industry will go fully to digital (a hard disk is much cheaper than a film print) will have 2 consequences: small film theaters which can not afford digital projectors will go out of business and what is happening to slide film now will also happen to color negative film. So Kaufmann estimate about color film could be optimistic but I can see that B&W film could be available as a niche product for much more than a decade - at a boutique product price level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 31, 2012 Share #168 Â Posted May 31, 2012 They must have had huge stocks. A year ago I bought one of their last two new M6 classics, another forum member got the other one. Â There was a story about Leica having a warehouse of unsold R8s. An exaggeration I expect, but R8s never exactly flew off the shelves. Despite being a great camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 31, 2012 Share #169 Â Posted May 31, 2012 They looked huge compared to the R4 and following, even the R7. At the time that was the reason I did not get one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted May 31, 2012 Share #170 Â Posted May 31, 2012 There was a story about Leica having a warehouse of unsold R8s. An exaggeration I expect, but R8s never exactly flew off the shelves. Despite being a great camera. Â If they still have any, a simple solution would be to put an "RM" sticker over the R8 and sell them with a case of b/w film as the new Monochrom R model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest malland Posted May 31, 2012 Share #171  Posted May 31, 2012 Jaap, so with the R8 it was a matter of the "M5 syndrome", I guess?  On the issue of this thread, it's amazing how some people are so angry that Kaufmann would state what he sees as a truth about the film market, which he must also see from the minuscule level of M-film cameras as well. But, then, this is why film vs digital discussions get so heated. "So much heat and so little light."  —Mitch/Bangkok Scratching the Surface Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 31, 2012 Share #172 Â Posted May 31, 2012 So it was, Mitch. Yes, there are some sensitivities out there on film vs digital. Unneccesary imo - especially as the remark was quite innocuous in the context. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darylgo Posted May 31, 2012 Share #173 Â Posted May 31, 2012 If they still have any, a simple solution would be to put an "RM" sticker over the R8 and sell them with a case of b/w film as the new Monochrom R model. Â Initially this had me LOL. Given more thought.....I have always wanted an R8/R9 for my collection as it is a beautiful camera with analog dials....what's there not to love? Am the only one or a minority in seeing the beauty? Â My understanding is that Kodak continues to derive profit from motion picture stock, so they continue to manufacture, this too is diminishing and the only question left is when will they discontinue it. When discontinued what will happen to Kodak film availability for our beloved Leicas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 31, 2012 Share #174 Â Posted May 31, 2012 They looked huge compared to the R4 and following, even the R7. At the time that was the reason I did not get one. Â I always thought the R4 was too small. The R8 was as near ergonomic perfection as any SLR I've ever owned. Â The irony is that Leica said they didn't make a digital SLR because it would have cost $5000 and wouldn't have sold at that price, while now they sell a 50mm f2 lens for around $8000. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 31, 2012 Share #175 Â Posted May 31, 2012 When Kodak stop making film, you won't be able to buy it any more. Â By the time that they stop making film for the cinema industry, they will probably drop their normal C41 stock too. Â I have said before that the last Kodak film to go will be Tri-X Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 31, 2012 Share #176 Â Posted May 31, 2012 Â The irony is that Leica said they didn't make a digital SLR because it would have cost $5000 and wouldn't have sold at that price, while now they sell a 50mm f2 lens for around $8000. Â But by now, the R-digital would be $10,000 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 31, 2012 Share #177 Â Posted May 31, 2012 But by now, the R-digital would be $10,000 Â So roughly the same price as a mono M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted May 31, 2012 Share #178 Â Posted May 31, 2012 But what would it be competing with? Â A D800 is $3500 Â An M9 or MM have no competition, so Leica can charge what they like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted May 31, 2012 Share #179 Â Posted May 31, 2012 In regard to shrinking film business, I think I read recently (probably on dpreview, maybe on T.O.P.) that film makes up only about 1% of Fujifim's business. I don't know what the figure was five years ago, but whether that number represents sales or profits, it isn't much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 31, 2012 Share #180  Posted May 31, 2012 But what would it be competing with? A D800 is $3500  Leicas have always been more expensive that similar cameras from other manufacturers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.