Wolfgang Esslinger Posted May 30, 2012 Share #61 Â Posted May 30, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Please direct me - I have been unable to find one that fitted my requirements... Â No guarantee that Leica will launch a suitable system either, I am afraid. After what I have seen so far I have given up hope. Whatever they will launch it will be way too expensive for my purposes (and funds). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 30, 2012 Posted May 30, 2012 Hi Wolfgang Esslinger, Take a look here AP interview with Dr Kaufmann. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wattsy Posted May 30, 2012 Share #62 Â Posted May 30, 2012 I think both the statement (about film) and the t-shirt were very unwise and I suspect (at least hope) Dr Kaufmann regrets both lapses of judgement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahakalaka Posted May 30, 2012 Share #63 Â Posted May 30, 2012 I humbly think some of you are reading too much into Dr. Kaufmann's prediction of film. I believe he just called it as it is and didn't mean to imply that film is an inferior medium that he wants no involvement in. Â If how he dresses and what brand image Leica has is important to you, then yeah, Leica is probably not the best bet for you. For a long time now, I've seen Leica as the investment bankers camera, not the hip street/journalist's camera. But you know, I simply love the cameras and lenses (I've got two analog M's and recently a digital M) and that's what is important to me. But to each their own I guess.. Â I love film and will continue shooting film, at least medium format, for probably a long time to come. But I am very happy that Leica is doing their part of developing the digital camera! Even if I won't buy the MM, I still think it's pretty awesome of them for making a camera like that - a digital solution to those of us who still prefer the look of B&W film. Perhaps the MM is not quite up there with the larger film formats yet, but at least it's heading in the right direction! If Leica spent all there time and money only developing new analog cameras, I think we all would have a fairly good idea of what they would produce, but on the other hand, I can't wait to see how awesome digital cameras are going to get in the years to come! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted May 30, 2012 Share #64 Â Posted May 30, 2012 The fact that they continue to produce the cameras while announcing the company's acknowledgement of the "end of fim," seems (is?) rather unethical. So you have a problem with Leica giving a realistic assessment? You would much much rather have them tell you fairytales about the glorious future of film? What would be so ethical about that? But I trust that photographers who have decided to stick with film know what they are doing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 30, 2012 Share #65 Â Posted May 30, 2012 I'm sure Dr.Kaufmann has some doubts about his sartorial lapse after he had a little talk with his wife, but I cannot see why he should regret anything else. What is wrong with a majority shareholder giving his opinion about the future developments of the infrastructure for one of his company's products? Unethical? A bit over the top don't you think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted May 30, 2012 Share #66 Â Posted May 30, 2012 I think both the statement (about film) and the t-shirt were very unwise and I suspect (at least hope) Dr Kaufmann regrets both lapses of judgement. Â The black t-shirt is a designer's statement of sorts. The uniform for designers during certain gatherings from, for example, Italy, Germany, Switzerland, France... is all black clothing. I asked why, and was told that it is an old tradition, that black clothes wear better for travel, and there is a certain assumption of humility by dressing alike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker Posted May 30, 2012 Share #67 Â Posted May 30, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Designer? Makes him look like an ageing poser to me. Presumably the Private Equity part-owners hired a "designer" to create a Leica "image" for its "new markets". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 30, 2012 Share #68 Â Posted May 30, 2012 Well, the contrast with the delegation from Hermes was ummm.. quite marked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted May 30, 2012 Share #69 Â Posted May 30, 2012 With much respect, Michael and Jaap, please re-read my post (no. 60). Just before me, James also posted saying (as I interpret it) much the same thing. Â In the most charitable interpretation, the company's position now makes no sense. Is the MP a camera for a lifetime, as in: "Not a quick fling, but the camera for a lifetime"? (Leica Camera AG - Photography - MP). Â Or is the MP a product for which film, which has reached its "end", will be ever more difficult to obtain, in the span of a few years? See: "Colour film will only be around for five more years, predicts Leica chairman. 'B&W may last longer.' " (Leica blows hot and cold in Berlin | Photography news - Camera news, photo news and photography events | Amateur Photographer) Â Lifetime? End of film? Leica has to make up its mind. Either one jingle or the other has to go. To keep both is, at worst, cynical, or, at best, to tell different customers (digital or film) the half-truths they want to hear. In either case, this does not seem like ethical salesmanship, or worthy of this company. So, actually Michael, I am in agreement with you, too. This is a call for marketing honesty on the part of the company. Â My jab at the clothes, which mahakalaka addresses in post 63, is precisely in agreement with his observations. Since when do people choose Leica because it has the hipster owner in the black T? Far from "das Wesentliche", this is contrived and embarrassing poser material, as Keith correctly notes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 30, 2012 Share #70 Â Posted May 30, 2012 Leica does not sell film - they can only observe the market, not influence the way it moves. The juxtaposition of their product policy and the market trends in film sales are a bit unfair I would say. Â Mr. Knirps: "It has stopped raining" Public -:"You are unethical because you make umbrellas!!":rolleyes: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted May 30, 2012 Share #71 Â Posted May 30, 2012 Leica does not sell film - they can only observe the market, not influence the way it moves. The juxtaposition of their product policy and the market trends in film sales are a bit unfair I would say. Â Ok, let's give Leica the benefit of the doubt here. Let's see if they agree to change the MP's description to: Â "Not a quick fling, but the camera for a lifetime, or as long as film lasts (which may be five years for colour, or perhaps longer for black and white)." Â Or... "the camera for a lifetime, at least mechanically, but useless for pictures in five years' time when you won't be able to buy colour film for it." Â I think I'd be pretty impressed by that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted May 30, 2012 Share #72 Â Posted May 30, 2012 The black t-shirt is a designer's statement of sorts. blah blah in the usual windbag fashion... Â FFS Pico, I know what a black t-shirt is and why Dr. K wore one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 30, 2012 Share #73 Â Posted May 30, 2012 Ok, let's give Leica the benefit of the doubt here. Let's see if they agree to change the MP's description to:Â "Not a quick fling, but the camera for a lifetime, or as long as film lasts (which may be five years for colour, or perhaps longer for black and white)." Â Or... "the camera for a lifetime, at least mechanically, but useless for pictures in five years' time when you won't be able to buy colour film for it." Â I think I'd be pretty impressed by that. Why should they? The camera will last a lifetime. With or without film. Getting the supplies is the responsibility of the buyer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted May 30, 2012 Share #74 Â Posted May 30, 2012 Why should they? The camera will last a lifetime. With or without film. Getting the supplies is the responsibility of the buyer. Â LOL. Bit of a corker, even by your standards Jaap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker Posted May 30, 2012 Share #75  Posted May 30, 2012 Leica does not sell film - they can only observe the market, not influence the way it moves. The juxtaposition of their product policy and the market trends in film sales are a bit unfair I would say. Mr. Knirps: "It has stopped raining" Public -:"You are unethical because you make umbrellas!!":rolleyes:  I don't want to go off into economics but I'm sick of people talking about "the market" as though it is an entity. In this case its the sum total of what lots of elements "do". The market for film has declined because less people use it. They have, and seem to prefer, alternatives. Fair enough. But Leica have made their reputation on film and I think they owe something to that. If I use ten times the amount of film this year than I did last year that influences "the market". If the Chairman of Leica says "Film is dead" people listen and that influences "the market". I like to think that one can still find people of principle in business. I thought Leica had people like that. But it seems they are only looking for shareholder value like most other business these days. And they have no shortage of rich, black t-shirted posers swanning around with a glass in their hand at "exclusive" events to support them. C'est la vie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted May 30, 2012 Share #76 Â Posted May 30, 2012 Why should they? The camera will last a lifetime. With or without film. Getting the supplies is the responsibility of the buyer. Â Ok - caveat emptor when dealing with the "new" Leica. Otherwise, the customer might buy a camera that in five years' time, should he want to shoot colour film, will turn into a beautiful and perfectly functional (but empty) paperweight. Â To hide this possibility, if this is really what they believe, is like trying to sell a boat to the blind in the middle of the Gobi. To announce it on the MP's webpage would be, as I said, impressive, and befitting of the open and honest company which I join Michael in wishing for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 30, 2012 Share #77 Â Posted May 30, 2012 LOL. Bit of a corker, even by your standards Jaap. I'll get Jaguar to guarantee the supply of petrol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 30, 2012 Share #78 Â Posted May 30, 2012 I don't want to go off into economics but I'm sick of people talking about "the market" as though it is an entity. In this case its the sum total of what lots of elements "do". The market for film has declined because less people use it. They have, and seem to prefer, alternatives. Fair enough. But Leica have made their reputation on film and I think they owe something to that. If I use ten times the amount of film this year than I did last year that influences "the market". If the Chairman of Leica says "Film is dead" people listen and that influences "the market". I like to think that one can still find people of principle in business. I thought Leica had people like that. But it seems they are only looking for shareholder value like most other business these days. And they have no shortage of rich, black t-shirted posers swanning around with a glass in their hand at "exclusive" events to support them. C'est la vie. You'll be happy to know I wore a blue-and-yellow striped shirt... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted May 30, 2012 Share #79  Posted May 30, 2012 I'll get Jaguar to guarantee the supply of petrol  Would you be as confused as I am if Jaguar released an electric car, and declared the "end of petrol", while still trying to sell their petrol cars? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted May 30, 2012 Share #80 Â Posted May 30, 2012 I think the main thing the Doctor pointed to is that he doesn't see an EVIL Leica with what looks like a Coke can for a lens, like the NEX 7 etc. That can only mean one thing, they are back tracking from a pre-mature APSC announcement and turning towards the new and exciting developments in m4/3, the only system that can deliver small and perfect lenses along with newfound leading image quality. Â As regards his views of film, well, lets face it, he wants to sell the companies latest products in container loads doesn't he, not the traditional film line, so he is hardly going to make a hard sell over and above the digital products. Â Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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