Paul Reading Posted May 28, 2012 Share #1 Posted May 28, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) About a year ago there was lots of chatter about a CSC coming this year, but with the recent clutch or new products it was a noticeable absence. I was rather hoping that they would release something like the X10 with interchangeable lenses, but I was not expecting them to release a huge range, but just enough such that it would not undermine sales of the M's. The lack of new bothers me because it looks from here that they have quietly dropped the whole concept and as I have been hanging on I am starting to wonder if I should spend my money elsewhere, what do you think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 28, 2012 Posted May 28, 2012 Hi Paul Reading, Take a look here Is the Leica CSC dead?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wda Posted May 28, 2012 Share #2 Posted May 28, 2012 About a year ago there was lots of chatter about a CSC coming this year.... Paul, it is still only May 2012! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 28, 2012 Share #3 Posted May 28, 2012 They haven't spoken of it in the recent Berlin Event, I seem... so the only voices are from "photokina times" of 2011 (when Stefan Daniel spoke of interest towards "APS-C or more" compact system cameras... but I can't remember exactly the phrase). No rumors about, either... even in the "rumor sites"... : but I think they have something not only in mind, but in the drawing board too... and the X1/X2 size (with EVIL) could be reasonable... the problem is that they would have to setup at least SOME (2 to 4 ?) new lenses probably targeted to this system (zoom ? AF ? Not FF coverage ?) and this is a not secondary decision in industrial terms, supposed they want to build them in house. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted May 28, 2012 Share #4 Posted May 28, 2012 I remember during the last few weeks in this forum a reference to the British Journal of Photography. Those guys had talked to Leica executives in Berlin and felt a tacit understanding that the CSC might be delayed beyond this fall, but not the M-10, whatever that is or will be called. Does anybody else remember that post? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 28, 2012 Share #5 Posted May 28, 2012 The post no sorry but the BJP article is this one i guess: Leica's new interchangeable lens camera system unlikely to be introduced in 2012 - British Journal of Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted May 28, 2012 Share #6 Posted May 28, 2012 Never confuse "rumors" and "chatter" with what Leica is actually doing. There will be an EVIL Leica at some point. You'll know for sure when that "some point" has arrived when Leica announces it - and not before. The BJP article is the most recent direct quote from a Leica official. Sounds reasonable to me. I expect Leica is using a lot of the investment from Blackstone to build the new expanded factory in Wetzlar, and then they'll have space & staff to add production lines for a third system camera and lenses. In addition to the 2011 talk that Luigi mentions, there was also a 2009(?) LFI article in which Dr. K said that Leica staffers were experimenting with "proof of concept" EVIL prototypes (not to be confused with production prototypes!) And remember that it took 12 years before Barnack's "proof of concept" Ur-Leica became a production product. Leica is always fiddling around with ideas - see this early "concept" for the M6: http://p1.la-img.com/427/9432/1948667_8_l.jpg They get worked on for a while, and then get set aside while everyone pitches in on real product like, say, the M9Ti or M Monochrom or X1. Doesn't mean they are dead - just that they aren't a priority. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 28, 2012 Share #7 Posted May 28, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks for the link, lct... I missed those talkings in Berlin; and, as Andy says, they are reasonable : any "strong" confirmation at this moment would be misleading and maybe damaging the M9P sales... the argument of "Coca Cola can in front of a camera" is a bit vague... lenses like the Noctilux or the Summiluxes 21/24 look big also onto a M... and they won't be typical tools for the "Leica EVIL" customers... lenses like Summicron 35 asph, Elmarit 28 asph, Summarits, look fine even adapted to a Nex... and I doubt that the Leica EVIL will be smaller. For this camera, if made in house (body and lenses) manufacturing capacity and organization is the key factor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted May 29, 2012 Share #8 Posted May 29, 2012 But doesn't the same logic apply that killed the R series? The Asian producers can move quickly; whatever Leica's CSC wants to be, others will likely already have done (at lower quality and lower price) than Leica's design. That makes it an also-ran before it's even on the market. Or where am I wrong? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 29, 2012 Share #9 Posted May 29, 2012 Less vignetting with Leica lenses, no color shifts with same, Leica lens recognition, Leica R solution, better manual focusing with Leica lenses, these are the advantages an EVIL Leica could bring on the table vs Fuji, Sony and other competitors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reading Posted May 29, 2012 Author Share #10 Posted May 29, 2012 My expectation was a for a CSC which in some ways would be similar to the Contax G series in that the G Series had a small range of lenses (16,21,28,35,45,90,35-70), but the Leica range would not be autofocus, but small and neat, and strictly limited to the above. It would not impinge on M sales but would probably out-sell it many times owing to affordability. My expectation was for the camera to be similar in size to the X10, so quite CL like but with a small dedicated range of lenses. This is the camera I really want, I doubt it would be any better than a V-Lux and would cost a lot more, but the pleasure of ownership would be inestimable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted May 29, 2012 Share #11 Posted May 29, 2012 My expectation was a for a CSC which in some ways would be similar to the Contax G series in that the G Series had a small range of lenses (16,21,28,35,45,90,35-70), but the Leica range would not be autofocus, but small and neat, and strictly limited to the above. It would not impinge on M sales but would probably out-sell it many times owing to affordability. My expectation was for the camera to be similar in size to the X10, so quite CL like but with a small dedicated range of lenses. This is the camera I really want, I doubt it would be any better than a V-Lux and would cost a lot more, but the pleasure of ownership would be inestimable. Many of us would like a camera like this (and many of us have / had a CL, not surprisingly... )... I am sure we would "accept" (buy...) it even without autofocus... but should this make them to lose a significant share of potential new customers ? I think this is probably the most critical decision they have to take on this project... to setup an AF lenses' product line MADE IN HOUSE would be a huge investiment in technologies they don't own at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicafan! Posted May 30, 2012 Share #12 Posted May 30, 2012 There's no need for a Leica CSC. There are loads of great cameras already on the market. Leica can't compete in this market. Look at the Leica X camera for an example of dated technology from Leica in a competitive market sector. If you want a CSC forget about the red dot and go and buy yourself one of the many great cameras that are already available! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted May 30, 2012 Share #13 Posted May 30, 2012 About a year ago there was lots of chatter about a CSC coming this year, but with the recent clutch or new products it was a noticeable absence. It wasn’t to be expected that Leica’s EVIL system would be introduced so soon. Last year Leica had hinted at a photokina 2012 release date but in a recent interview with Amateur Photographer Dr. Kaufmann seems to suggest that the new system might not be ready for an announcement in September. We will see. In any case, don’t expect to hear about any details until the new system is about to be released. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo.Battista Posted May 30, 2012 Share #14 Posted May 30, 2012 There's no need for a Leica CSC. Since Leica goal is to reach the 1% of the camera market, they really need a new product in order to achieve it. That product can't be a new reiteration of the classical rangefinder product (since already all the digital rangefinder market is in their hand), can't be the S2 platform, nor a new lens line like the APO Summicron announced in Berlin. Since the development of the traditional DSLR solution has been abandoned, the only chance is a mirrorless system camera. As for X1 and X2, it can't be completely built in Solms, obviously, and they will need a technological partner to provide for them same of the components. It will be just as a system from alternative vendors? It depends. For sure a vendor who is doing something different from the others already exists (Ricoh with the M module). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 30, 2012 Share #15 Posted May 30, 2012 There's no need for a Leica CSC. There are loads of great cameras already on the market. Leica can't compete in this market. Look at the Leica X camera for an example of dated technology from Leica in a competitive market sector. If you want a CSC forget about the red dot and go and buy yourself one of the many great cameras that are already available! Which one? i cannot find one...X1/X2 The bestselling Leica compact of all time.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted May 30, 2012 Share #16 Posted May 30, 2012 Since Leica goal is to reach the 1% of the camera market, they really need a new product in order to achieve it. That product can't be a new reiteration of the classical rangefinder product (since already all the digital rangefinder market is in their hand), can't be the S2 platform, nor a new lens line like the APO Summicron announced in Berlin. Since the development of the traditional DSLR solution has been abandoned, the only chance is a mirrorless system camera. Indeed. Despite Dr. Kaufmann’s recent backpedaling I still think this is the only area with the necessary potential for sustainable growth (measured in units rather than just in value). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 30, 2012 Share #17 Posted May 30, 2012 As I understand it, a substantial part of the growth will not be in cameras. Maybe black T-shirts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted May 30, 2012 Share #18 Posted May 30, 2012 Maybe black T-shirts? I doubt Dr. Kaufmann could do as much for the black T-shirt as Steve Jobs did for the turtleneck sweater. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted May 30, 2012 Share #19 Posted May 30, 2012 He could give it a human face. And ditto tummy. The old man from the Suit and Hat Age Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted May 30, 2012 Share #20 Posted May 30, 2012 This autumn would be the right time to introduce the new Leica EVF camera. But I am changing my opinion here: Before moving into the new premises, Leica Camera AG will not have the capacity to manufacture it. So for now, the prognosis is for a M9-2, rather than a M10, at the Photokina. For irrespective of what they choose to call it, it will be a developed-on M9, just as the M4, M6 etc. were developed-on M2s. New and more capable electronics, possibly an Active Pixel Sensor ("CMOS"), possibly a revised rear interface à la S2. Even live view. But nothing radical. Barnack's Leica was not the first 35mm camera. It was not even the first to use the 24x36mm format (that seems to have been the Guérin Le Furet of 1923). But it defined 35mm photography. So the fact that there exists already 'mirrorless' EVF cameras with interchangeable lenses is no big deal. The only question is what Fuji will have in two years' time. The old man from the 35mm Age Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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