Photokina predictions

[marknorton]

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Do Truesense make CMOS sensors? A quick look at their web-site suggests not. As I understand it, Truesense are really just the original Kodak operation. I think we'd all be very surprised (and we may yet be) if the M10 continues to use a CCD sensor.

 

It's possible of course Leica will introduce two cameras, one a traditional CCD based M and a new camera which is CMOS based, can take M and R lenses with an optional EVF, live view, focus confirmation but maybe no M rangefinder.

 

Interesting that 6 years ago, when the M8 was launched, we knew all about it this close to Photokina. This year, nothing. Their security is much more watertight than Apple's, unless of course we have misjudged the situation and all Leica have to show us is a new PanaLeica and a redesigned Red Dot.

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[Peter H]

Mark, I think its interesting that all the people who know, and there are loads of them, are not prepared to tell the rest of us anything.

 

That in itself is revealing!

[AlanG]

... unless of course we have misjudged the situation and all Leica have to show us is a new PanaLeica and a redesigned Red Dot.

 

When I saw that the MM was based on the M9's sensor, electronics, screen, etc. it made me wonder how they could announce a new body just as the MMs started to ship. But maybe that was the strategy (a last push for the old technology) and they don't plan to sell many of them anyway. The electronics of the M9 are very long in the tooth so if they don't have an M10 up their sleeves they better get cracking on it.

[lct]

David Farkas' blog would be pure cruelty then.

[pico]

Any new 'pure Leica' camera including the M10 could likely have a Truesense Imaging sensor ... with whom Leica have been working for the development of future sensors. Truesense sensors are used in the cameras installed on NASA's Curiousity - the Mars Rover.

 

Yes, the CCD is good sensor for the Rover and its satellite hosts, but from Leica's comments and the general direction of technology, the need for live view and so-forth it is likely that CMOS will be the next tech for Leica. CMOS of the type for a Leica is not within Truesense's portfolio. It seems to me to be unlikely that Truesense would develop the appropriate CMOS for the very limited Leica market.

 

Just my two-bits offered for correction from net-wisdom.

[andybarton]

It's possible of course Leica will introduce two cameras, one a traditional CCD based M and a new camera which is CMOS based, can take M and R lenses with an optional EVF, live view, focus confirmation but maybe no M rangefinder.

 

 

That's where my money would go if I were a betting man.

[mjh]

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My understanding of M9 sensor challenges relate to lens sensor proximity, film as we know is not sensitive to these angles, sensors are ?

Sensor proximity per se isn’t an issue, incident angles much greater than 0° are. If you can design a lens to match a sensor you can adopt a near telecentric design that avoids those angles. Sensor and rear lens could get quite close then, as is customary in all the newer EVIL systems out there, for example up to 10.2 mm in the case of the Fuji X-Pro1 and X-E1.

 

On the other hand, Leica had to design a sensor to match existing lenses.

 

Given the proximity must be similar to the M9 then perhaps Zeiss have worked to solve in part by glass design in a more integrated fashion than Leica could consider given the in stalled lens base ?

From the look of it the rear lens and the sensor of the RX1 get much closer than in the M9. But it isn’t that difficult to design a matching lens – Zeiss can do it, Leica could do it – every lens designer worth his or her salt could.

[mjh]

Do Truesense make CMOS sensors? A quick look at their web-site suggests not.

They sold off their CMOS business while they were still Kodak. These were small sensors anyway.

 

It's possible of course Leica will introduce two cameras, one a traditional CCD based M and a new camera which is CMOS based, can take M and R lenses with an optional EVF, live view, focus confirmation but maybe no M rangefinder.

Such a move would please both the traditionalists already mourning the CCD and those clamouring for live view and support for R lenses (or in fact nearly all the manual lenses out there, for that matter).

[IWC Doppel]

Any new 'pure Leica' camera including the M10 could likely have a Truesense Imaging sensor ... with whom Leica have been working for the development of future sensors. Truesense sensors are used in the cameras installed on NASA's Curiousity - the Mars Rover.

 

dunk

 

I hope your right and I wouldn't be shocked. I really don't see using a basic CMOS sensor as a sensible strategy, it will need to have something to differentiate other than a nice case and badge in my humble opinion

 

If Leica can do something special with the sensor it will keep their position in this market. 'Just' having a full frame is not enough and without the different look from a CCD sensor I won't be considering saving up or coveting

[sdai]

Such a move would please both the traditionalists already mourning the CCD and those clamouring for live view and support for R lenses (or in fact nearly all the manual lenses out there, for that matter).

 

The live view camera might just ring the death knell for the traditional M series ... I wonder how many M8/M9/MM users buy them mainly because of their fondness of the rangefinder?

[lct]

Why would CMOS sensors be more "basic" than CCDs? Most of us are using both CMOS and CCD sensors i guess. IQ wise i hardly see any significant differences between them personally. Do you see any?

[andyedward]

The live view camera might just ring the death knell for the traditional M series ... I wonder how many M8/M9/MM users buy them mainly because of their fondness of the rangefinder?

 

I wonder how many people use digital M's primarily as a vehicle for leica M lenses?

[pop]

I wonder how many M8/M9/MM users buy them mainly because of their fondness of the rangefinder?

 

I do for my out of doors shooting. I would love an EVIL one as well for close up and possible tele shooting and so on. If affordable, that is.

[mjh]

The live view camera might just ring the death knell for the traditional M series ... I wonder how many M8/M9/MM users buy them mainly because of their fondness of the rangefinder?

An M with live view would still be an M, i.e. a rangefinder camera.

[pico]

I hope your right and I wouldn't be shocked. I really don't see using a basic CMOS sensor as a sensible strategy, it will need to have something to differentiate other than a nice case and badge in my humble opinion

 

If Leica can do something special with the sensor it will keep their position in this market. 'Just' having a full frame is not enough and without the different look from a CCD sensor I won't be considering saving up or coveting

 

You are not paying attention.

 

Now just what 'special something' do you think Leica would have to add to the sensor? And just how different a look does a CCD have from a CMOS?

 

.

[hamey]

There are no Fuji sensors in a 35 mm or even APS-C form factor; their biggest sensors are 2/3". The sensors in the X100 and X-Pro1 are manufactured by Sony, based on Sony’s standard chips and modified to Fuji’s specifications.

 

Thank you for information Michael.

 

To what I have seen, the Fuji's images seem to always look nicer then the Sony to me.

Don't get me wrong, I have always been a Sony fan, starting with their Triniton and Profeel TV's and now

use the Bravia LCD, I also was a big fan of their Beta video recorders.

My 26 year old Sony 950 Beta recorder is still working, but only for show now.

Anybody remembers their slogen........THE ONE AND ONLY.

 

Ken.

[rramesh]

The future of Leica is not building an Interchangeable Lens Camera but rather offering Interchangeable Camera Lenses. Continue to make great M lenses and let the users choose which camera to mount it onto.

 

You see. Down the road I might just sell my M9 and replace with a better one. But, I will never sell my M lenses. And I am sure that prices reflect this strategy.

[lct]

Why would Leica stop making rangefinders they sell with great success and are the only ones to make? To become a mere lens maker a la Zeiss? Hard to see where's Leica's interest, and first of all ours, in such an evolution.

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[AlanG]

Why would Leica stop making rangefinders they sell with great success and are the only ones to make? To become a mere lens maker a la Zeiss? Hard to see where's Leica's interest, and first of all ours, in such an evolution.

 

I agree. Leica is really in a good position. For instance if the M10 has a rangefinder, live view and a clip on EVF (or some other kind of advanced hybrid finder,) state of the art sensor and electronics, it will be a unique and versatile modern platform. It may even appeal to more people who are not the traditional Leica users. This will be a small full frame mirrorless camera that can use quite a few lenses from other cameras too.

[pico]

The future of Leica is not building an Interchangeable Lens Camera but rather offering Interchangeable Camera Lenses. Continue to make great M lenses and let the users choose which camera to mount it onto.

 

You see. Down the road I might just sell my M9 and replace with a better one. But, I will never sell my M lenses. And I am sure that prices reflect this strategy.

 

Speaking for the moment as Mister Affluent Consumer, I tell you that I could care less about those expensive Leica lenses unless there is an equally exclusive camera that comes from the same maker/designer: Leica. I did not become affluent by dealing with complex operating systems embedded in complex cameras and fostered by techno-stamp-collecting mentalities. As a high-level executive I do not deal with trivia. I ask questions nobody else can even think of. My camera will be simple, but sophisticated. I will carry it with confidence in its outcomes. And it had better have the feel I am accustomed to in other belongings, not some tin, titanium, or magnesium alloy lightweight! Brass, goddamn it! And I want to see it working out in the world where real men and real women of courage and adventure dwell - even if Leica has to GIVE them the damned cameras.

 

Okay, all done now! As Roseanne Roseannadanna said, "Never mind."