darylgo Posted September 15, 2012 Share #241 Posted September 15, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) The M digital uses microlenses to correct the steep angle needed for the short flange distance of M lenses. An R lens with adapter would have a more parallel light path and the microlenses would not be in proper alignment, especially in the corners and edges. I am not convinced there will be a M camera that could also use R lenses at their optimum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 15, 2012 Posted September 15, 2012 Hi darylgo, Take a look here Photokina predictions. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
AlanG Posted September 15, 2012 Share #242 Posted September 15, 2012 The M digital uses microlenses to correct the steep angle needed for the short flange distance of M lenses. An R lens with adapter would have a more parallel light path and the microlenses would not be in proper alignment, especially in the corners and edges. I am not convinced there will be a M camera that could also use R lenses at their optimum. Don't worry, they'll work just fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted September 15, 2012 Share #243 Posted September 15, 2012 Is the Sony RX1 the heart of the new Leica M10? http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2012/09/11/the-new-sony-rx1-full-frame-compact-with-35-f2-zeiss-lens-1st-look-hands-on-report/ http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sony-cybershot-dsc-rx1/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted September 15, 2012 Share #244 Posted September 15, 2012 Not a Prediction, but Personally it's better to team up with FUJI for their future Sensors. I am using Fuji film for my film cameras, and I would love to see Fuji sensors for Leica Digital Cameras. Ken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted September 15, 2012 Share #245 Posted September 15, 2012 Is the Sony RX1 the heart of the new Leica M10? The Sony RX1 Preview – Full frame compact with 35 f/2 Zeiss lens – 1st look hands on report! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS Sony RX1 Hands-on Preview: Digital Photography Review More likely to worry the X1 and X2 I would have thought. Will look forward to seeing it at Photokina but a fixed lens for me is always a drawback so, like the X2, it is not on my radar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 15, 2012 Share #246 Posted September 15, 2012 Personally it's better to team up with FUJI for their future Sensors. There are no Fuji sensors in a 35 mm or even APS-C form factor; their biggest sensors are 2/3". The sensors in the X100 and X-Pro1 are manufactured by Sony, based on Sony’s standard chips and modified to Fuji’s specifications. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 15, 2012 Share #247 Posted September 15, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Is the Sony RX1 the heart of the new Leica M10? I don’t think so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted September 15, 2012 Share #248 Posted September 15, 2012 I don’t think so. This must be good news, no? If Steve Huff is right and the RX1 sensor is "better" than the one in the D800, and if as seems logical a new M camera will have a better sensor than the RX1, then maybe there is something worth looking forward to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblitz Posted September 15, 2012 Share #249 Posted September 15, 2012 so if there is a sony with the same chip as a leica m and can take m lenses, buy the sony? what makes owning a leica owning a leica? form factor in your hands? that's between the ears. it's the lenses that are uniquely leica, the camera itself seems interchangeable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted September 15, 2012 Share #250 Posted September 15, 2012 What about rangefinders? Sony will make one when pigs can fly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted September 15, 2012 Share #251 Posted September 15, 2012 What about rangefinders? Sony will make one when pigs can fly. Sony don't make rangefinders and Leica don't make sensors. A perfect match! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 15, 2012 Share #252 Posted September 15, 2012 so if there is a sony with the same chip as a leica m The operative word being “if” … In any case, neither the A99 nor the RX1 can take M lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share #253 Posted September 15, 2012 I doubt very much Leica will use a sensor that doesn't have some exclusivity, the rangefinder product has been reinvented or revived depending on your point if view, probably from panasonic GF1 era or before, M8 time ? Sony have done the inevitable and introduced a full frame rangefinder at this point with a fixed lens. Panasonic have backed the 4/3 or near full frame solution in the rangefinder. The Leica M approach is a good one and it has been far from unique for a while. When we finally see Sony or another produce body's with interchangeable lenses and full frame Leica know they will need a defence if they are to grow The sensor will not be a Sony unit I have no doubt. We are 3 years on from the M9 that's a lot of development time. Another thought, the difficulty solving the full frame sensor and rangefinder lens positioning is obviously not a quick or easy one. Perhaps Zeiss and Sony have worked out a solution that is part sensor part lens ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted September 15, 2012 Share #254 Posted September 15, 2012 Sony have done the inevitable and introduced a full frame rangefinder at this point with a fixed lens. The RX1 is not a rangefinder by any stretch of the imagination. It doesn’t even have a viewfinder, much less a coupled rangefinder. Another thought, the difficulty solving the full frame sensor and rangefinder lens positioning is obviously not a quick or easy one. Perhaps Zeiss and Sony have worked out a solution that is part sensor part lens ? The lens of the RX1 is not a ‘rangefinder lens’. It is a lens designed for a particular sensor and we can assume it is a good match. The issue Leica had to solve was that the existing M lenses were not designed with the sensor (any sensor) in mind. Neither was the M mount itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 15, 2012 Share #255 Posted September 15, 2012 I doubt very much Leica will use a sensor that doesn't have some exclusivity [...] With exclusivity come the risks of small quantity production - inflexibility. Sony now has the mastery of FF production and the flexibility to turn on a dime, to improve rapidly. I would not be at all unhappy to learn that Leica will use a common Sony sensor. I'm still a strictly rangefinder person, and will probably simply drop out of 35mm if Leica discontinues RF. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iedei Posted September 15, 2012 Share #256 Posted September 15, 2012 i agree with those who reckon the RX1 is not a "competitor" per se....i actually think of it more of a NEW idea----to make a compact full-frame camera with a whole new strategy and idea. That, in itself, is a positive thing as there should be new ideas and new outlooks by different companies. Not everyone should be in the shadow of what Leica does. That being said, it would be fantastic if someone TRULY came out with a more compact Rangefinder solution. My idea is that perhaps Panasonic should use their Leica ties to come up with a solution which is able to use M lenses and also incorporates Rangefinding into their mechanism. Perhaps an entry-level sub-$1500 Rangefinder solution which doesn't compete with Leica, and in fact encourages a whole new generation of photographers to develop a liking to Rangefinder photography. After 'falling in love with it'....these new people can "move up" to a Leica if they should choose to. I, myself, am new to Rangefinder photography (less than 3 weeks new), and if Panasonic was selling a $1500 Rangefinder camera, I would have considered buying it instead of the 2nd hand M8.1 i purchased. I think Panasonic is sitting on a goldmine that they have yet to work on....or are they working on it? Who knows.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted September 15, 2012 Share #257 Posted September 15, 2012 The RX1 is not a rangefinder by any stretch of the imagination. It doesn’t even have a viewfinder, much less a coupled rangefinder. I know what you are getting at but an EVF or an optical finder can be inserted into the hot shoe. (Maybe as EVFs evolve an even better one can be used on this camera in a few years.) So this is like saying the M9 does not have a lens whereas it is included on the RX1. It is just a design decision to separate the finder from the camera to give buyers a choice and "possibly" make it upgradeable in the future. I don't know what one does for flash synch if the viewfinder takes up the hot shoe. That's one advantage of a Nex 6 or 7 over a Nex 5 with clip on EVF. Maybe they will have a solution or we'll have to wait a year for the RX7 that will have a built in EVF, hot shoe, and Wankel engine. I don't know who's full frame CMOS sensor will be in the M10 but I don't think there are a lot of choices. It seems to most of us that Sony would be the obvious one to supply this. Looking at the RX1 they must really know their way around micro lenses too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share #258 Posted September 15, 2012 The RX1 is not a rangefinder by any stretch of the imagination. It doesn’t even have a viewfinder, much less a coupled rangefinder. I wasn't coming from a definition point of view more the physical size and format from a users perspective the viewfinder is attached to the hot shoe The lens of the RX1 is not a ‘rangefinder lens’. It is a lens designed for a particular sensor and we can assume it is a good match. The issue Leica had to solve was that the existing M lenses were not designed with the sensor (any sensor) in mind. Neither was the M mount itself. My understanding of M9 sensor challenges relate to lens sensor proximity, film as we know is not sensitive to these angles, sensors are ? Given the proximity must be similar to the M9 then perhaps Zeiss have worked to solve in part by glass design in a more integrated fashion than Leica could consider given the in stalled lens base ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted September 15, 2012 Share #259 Posted September 15, 2012 With exclusivity come the risks of small quantity production - inflexibility. Sony now has the mastery of FF production and the flexibility to turn on a dime, to improve rapidly. I would not be at all unhappy to learn that Leica will use a common Sony sensor. I'm still a strictly rangefinder person, and will probably simply drop out of 35mm if Leica discontinues RF. Any new 'pure Leica' camera including the M10 could likely have a Truesense Imaging sensor ... with whom Leica have been working for the development of future sensors. Truesense sensors are used in the cameras installed on NASA's Curiousity - the Mars Rover. dunk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted September 15, 2012 Share #260 Posted September 15, 2012 The M10 will certainly have a CMOS sensor. Truesense has only made CCD sensors up till now. CMOS is an entirely different manufacturing technology. The old man from the Kodachrome Age Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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