Summicron 90mm f/2 1973

[jc_braconi]

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Not yet, but I was looking for one, because indeed everything under F4 is hard to focus, especially close up... Thanks for the tip!!

 

You recommend a 1.25 or 1.4 for the 90mm on M8?

 

Thanks!

I use the 1.25 on my M8s but, may be you can try both, if posible, in a Leica dealer shop and make your choice.

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[lars_bergquist]

The problem with the magnifiers is that while they do magnify, they also reduce contrast. This is really obvious because they take the same image and spread it wider ... and thinner.

 

So they can in fact be counter-productive. I found that I focused not only my 90mm Elmarit-M but also the 135mm Apo-Telyt more reliably without the 1.4x magnifier than with it.

 

And my eyeballs are 76 years old. In fact I suspect that the relief that a magnifier brings is more psychological than factual.

 

The old man from the Kodachrome Age

[jip]

The problem with the magnifiers is that while they do magnify, they also reduce contrast. This is really obvious because they take the same image and spread it wider ... and thinner.

 

So they can in fact be counter-productive. I found that I focused not only my 90mm Elmarit-M but also the 135mm Apo-Telyt more reliably without the 1.4x magnifier than with it.

 

And my eyeballs are 76 years old. In fact I suspect that the relief that a magnifier brings is more psychological than factual.

 

The old man from the Kodachrome Age

 

Thanks for information! But what about a 1.25 magnifier, this would maybe be a way between none and the 1.4 magnifiers.

 

Jip

 

(the young man from the CCD/CMOS age) pun intended

[jc_braconi]

That old long-focus 90mm Summicron did in fact exist in two versions that differed not only in their mounts, but also optically, enough to matter, though they did share the same general double-Gauss six-element layout:

 

The first one (1957–1959) was the SOOZI (for LTM, SOOZI-M for M-mount) with the separate, free-form hood. This one was quite soft wide open and improved only moderately at mid-apertures. It seems to have been the origin of that "especially suitable for ladies' portraits" marketing spiel.

 

The second one (1959–1979, ## from 1,651,000) was the SEEOF, SEEOF-M or SEEOM or 11123 with the built-in telescoping hood. It had a re-computed lens head and was distinctly sharper wide open. It was in fact sharper at f:2 than its successor, the 1980–1998 code 11136, though this was better stopped down. This lens was also offered as a lens head for Visoflex use (code ZOOEP). Some of these had aperture pre-selection mechanisms.

 

Much early literature was written by collectors that could see (and were mainly interested) in odd outside variations of mechanics and finish, but did not understand the internal optics, and really were not that interested. They brought a philatelic attitude to Leica historiography, which was unfortunate. Many misunderstandings and conflations resulted.

 

The old man from the Brass Age

 

some illustrations for the Summicron's M 2_90

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[jip]

Mine is one of the latest, it has the latest looks and has the telescopic hood. It's from 1973 and has Serial No.: 2660278

Prod. Code: 11123

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Edited May 28, 2012 by jip

[jc_braconi]

Mine is one of the latest, it has the latest looks and has the telescopic hood. It's from 1973 and has Serial No.: 2660278

Prod. Code: 11123

The 2nd from R, similar of yours, s/n is 2 41x xxx

[lecycliste]

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Luigi, My text was supposed to read "This is the second version; as far as optical design is concerned its head does come off to be used on the Visoflex II and III housings via the 16462 focusing adapter". I responded in haste and did not proof read whether what I wrote made sense. Indeed the first and second versions were optically identical. Cheers, Jan

According to Erwin Puts, no, the version 1 from 1957 is *not* the same optically as the version 2 from 1959-1979. The glass types and indeed, the optical cross-sections are different. Performance of version 2 is better. My 1959 copy of version 2 is fairly sharp at maximum f/2 aperture in the center, as Puts states it should be. He has the years of production wrong for both v1 and v2. Sartorius says it should be v1 (1957-1958) and v2 (1959-1979).

Edited May 24, 2018 by lecycliste

[luigi bertolotti]

Thans for having resurged an old thread, on a question that is not trivial for lovers of Leitz history : I admit I was too simplicistic in my statement : the 1st and 2nd version of the Summicron 90 have indeed the same schema (Gauss symmetrical- 6 elements) but the design in itself IS different, you're right, and the glasses are surely of different formulations.

 

BUT : what is REALLY the design of the 1st version ?

 

Here is the cross section of the v1, as published by Erwin Puts :

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And here is an official Leitz brochure of the v1 :

 

Worth noting, about the v2, Puts' report and a Leitz brochure look slightly different… but is surely simply a matter of graphic design ("rough" in the Leitz' doc) : they are substantially the same.

 

 

 

More info welcome.

[UliWer]

You can find a most concise list of all versions of the 90mm Summicron here in the Wiki of the German forum:https://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.de/index.php/LEICA_M-Objektive#90mm_f_.3D_9_cm_1:2_Summicron_ZUSAMMENFASSUNG (unfortunately only in German)

 

This was a "collective" work of the Forum started by telewatt, with many details given by owners of the lenses.