New Summicron

[Paul J]

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I'm not sure what the big deal is.

 

You either want to pay a premium for the best lens available or you pay less and get something that is still really amazing.

 

Everyone wins except for those who want the best and aren't prepared to pay for it.

[tomasis7]

reading discussions about prices make me feel ill.

 

why dont go out and take picture? i know it sounds cliche. I just occasionally drop in forum to check when any new product is announced.

 

I get impression that people try justify for gear as they were businessmen instead of artists. ""Logically f1.4 would be more expensive than f2.0. It is fair that 0.95 is most expensive, how come that f2.0 is not cheap "".. etc etc.

 

When I saw Apo first, I thought "what nice, there is tab focusing, that I need for prefocus to get fast capture, I expected this as replacement to non apo at slighty higher price".

 

However my 50mm summicron 3rd gen from 1970 is good enough at biggest aperture, but Im craving for tab focusing then Summarit might be good upgrade for me because tab. Nothing else. I must be lucky that f2.5 is not more expensive than f0.95, right?

 

Yeah it is only tab i was interested for to upgrade for Ergonomic sake.

[pico]

That's just not accurate. The cost is higher for several of the larger 0.95 Noctilux elements, due in no small part to the long cycle time to cool the glass, but to say the quality is entirely different (and by different I take it you mean "better") than the lux is wrong.

 

I wish we had the definitive information on that. It is my impression that the cooling period is hugely exaggerated from mere hours to days or months, even years. The manufacturer makes and cools the glass blanks many at a time just large enough to be made into a lens, maybe two - not a whole pot of the stuff. I don't know whether Leica still makes its own glass, but I doubt it.

.

If I were a glass manufacturer, and got an order from Leica, I would price it as Leica prices to its customers. $$$$$$$

[tomasis7]

My few words are: tomorrow I post my order.

 

I'll let you know if the lens is just fantastic or is the true masterpiece it seems to be

 

 

From what perspective?

 

Scientist's?`right?

[TshawM8]

You're right. We should have ignored the price in the discussion entirely and focused on discussing the most important characteristics of a lens, such as a focusing tab. I feel stupid now that I realize how dumb it would be to consider price an important factor in the discussion of this lens.

[lct]

...When I saw Apo first, I thought "what nice, there is tab focusing, that I need for prefocus to get fast capture, I expected this as replacement to non apo...

Apo-Tab, Non-Apo-Tab or No-Tab-Apo, that is the question.

[Phil U]

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It is my impression that the cooling period is hugely exaggerated from mere hours to days or months, even years.

 

I too have always suspected that the "year to cool" is the stuff of urban legend. I suspect the origins of it go back to a post made in a place like this.

[giordano]

Leica Camera seem to have got it into their pointy heads that they can only ever call a f/2 lens a Summicron.

 

I feel there would be less fuss about this lens and its price if it had a different name, setting it clearly apart from the simple old 50/2 lenses.

 

How about the Apo-Summilux 50/2? There's no law I know of saying that a "Summilux" must be f/1.4. If I'm wrong, there are lots of other names to choose from or invent.

[Phil U]

Leica Camera seem to have got it into their pointy heads that they can only ever call a f/2 lens a Summicron.

 

I feel there would be less fuss about this lens and its price if it had a different name, setting it clearly apart from the simple old 50/2 lenses.

 

How about the Apo-Summilux 50/2? There's no law I know of saying that a "Summilux" must be f/1.4. If I'm wrong, there are lots of other names to choose from or invent.

 

'tis surely common law that a summilux shall be f1.4. But I agree there could be another name. Given the price, perhaps the "luxilux"?

[philipus]

"luxilux"

 

 

That's the funniest thing I've seen today!

[jaapv]

Apo-Summarex, How about that?

[tomasis7]

You're right. We should have ignored the price in the discussion entirely and focused on discussing the most important characteristics of a lens, such as a focusing tab. I feel stupid now that I realize how dumb it would be to consider price an important factor in the discussion of this lens.

 

it doesnt force to buy the lens. Why to discuss about price if the non Apo is available.. plenty of them in stock! both used and new.

 

If I see Ferrari Enzo FXX, Bugatti Veyron, I dont go to forum and discuss price of them.

[stunsworth]

If I see Ferrari Enzo FXX, Bugatti Veyron, I dont go to forum and discuss price of them.

 

But if you wanted to buy one it may possibly come up in conversation when you were writing the cheque.

[jaapv]

If you have to ask the price you cannot afford it - the cheque will be handled by one of your secretaries.

[giordano]

I too have always suspected that the "year to cool" is the stuff of urban legend. I suspect the origins of it go back to a post made in a place like this.

 

It's essential to cool the billets of glass slowly and evenly so as to avoid stress in the glass that would distort the elements as they were ground. How long that takes depends among other things on the size of the billets and (I suspect) the size and shape of the elements that will be cut from them. This story suggests that the billet for the 200 inch mirror at Mount Palomar was cooled over more than a year - and that glass was chosen for its low coefficient of expansion, not for its optical properties - so I can easily imagine a more modest lump of fancy optical glass having to be cooled gradually over many weeks.

[tomasis7]

But if you wanted to buy one it may possibly come up in conversation when you were writing the cheque.

 

How many write the cheques for that kind of stuffs?

 

Those people dont even need a dedicated forum Neither those who buy Hermes stuffs.

[Jeff S]

The difference is that the design target for the 35 FLE was to make a lens that was as close as possible to the 35 ASPH but without the focus shift and the design target for the Apo-Summicron was to make the best 50 mm lens that humankind can craft. That makes a magnitude of difference in the tolerances required - and a substantial difference in the resulting price.

 

Let's remember that when Leica comes up with the $9000 version of the Summilux. In the meantime, if you read the description on their website, the new 35 Summilux already is the best fast compact 35 there is...

 

"Even wide open, the Leica Summilux-M 35 mm f/1.4 ASPH.

reveals performance characteristics without precedent in the field of compact 35 mm lenses

: outstanding imaging performance over the entire focus range, from infinity to minimum focus; excellent contrast, even in the finest structures; superb rendition of detail across the entire image field; good field flattening and, stopped down to f2 and onwards, almost complete freedom from coma effects.

It is almost impossible to improve this excellent optical performance by stopping down

."

That's what marketing is about...make us think we have the best there is...then reveal its supposed 'faults' by releasing something better. I'm not particularly troubled by it, as it happens by many companies across many industries. But let's not fall into the trap of believing it all.

 

The only surprise for me is that the extreme jump in price happened with the 'bread and butter' 50 Summicron, and not the 50 Summilux in the first place. Can the 35 Summicron be far behind?

 

Maybe the good news is that many folks will be driven by prices to buy the Summarit line, which is already fantastic by any meaningful and practical standard, lens speed aside. In that case, one can only hope that they don't fall into the trap of thinking they have a substandard lens.

 

And the beat goes on. Or at least we hope so, for that's the challenge for Leica as it moves forward. September will reveal another piece of the puzzle.

 

Jeff

[pico]

[...]How about the Apo-Summilux 50/2? There's no law I know of saying that a "Summilux" must be f/1.4. If I'm wrong, there are lots of other names to choose from or invent.

 

There is a long tradition of naming Leica lenses. It would simply be inappropriate to their conventions.

 

But as long as we are being daft (rather, I am being daft), why not

 

APHERICAL-Ratimmus, the right-hand book-end of Summitar?

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BTW, what's next after APO, or is that the end of the technology?

[haroldp]

Nobody doubts that. Their prices are indeed vastly different. The question is, is the Apo, at three times the price, actually three times as good?

 

The old man from the Kodachrome Age

 

As in all high end goods, diminishing returns quickly sets in, twice the price may be 5-10 % (or 1%) better. I can and have articulated circumstances where the price might be justified, but those circumstances do not currently apply to me so I will not be ordering one.

 

Since the 50mm F2 (or 1.8) is the staple prime in every manufacturers catalog it makes sense for Leica to keep a spot in that market sector with the non-apo summicron, which lest we forget, two weeks ago was the best 50/2 on the market and whose R & D is long amortized.

 

To effectively get the resolution promised by the apo summicron, one should either be shooting still subjects (like mountains) on a tripod (not why I use Leica's), or moving subjects with strobe or very fast shutter speeds.

 

Many do not have the craft to get the best out of the 'old' summicron.

 

It is also possible that to consistently exploit the apo summicron would need a perfectly adjusted RF system, or high magnification live view for focusing (again the tripod).

 

.... H

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[StephenPatterson]

 

Maybe the good news is that many folks will be driven by prices to buy the Summarit line, which is already fantastic by any meaningful and practical standard, lens speed aside. In that case, one can only hope that they don't fall into the trap of thinking they have a substandard lens.

 

And the beat goes on. Or at least we hope so, for that's the challenge for Leica as it moves forward. September will reveal another piece of the puzzle.

 

Jeff

 

My wife has offered an opinion which I at first thought absurd but now I'm not so sure. She pointed out that many fashion designers have a premium label and a secondary, less expensive line. Donna Karin and DKNY for instance. I can only hope we are not on the verge of seeing Leica Express or Leica JR...