skinnfell Posted April 22, 2012 Share #1 Posted April 22, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Several rumor sites claim that there is a new SUMMICRON-M 50MM ASPH coming, and that it will be $1000 more expensive than the current. If the rumors are correct, we get the following situation: Currently the lux sells for around $4000 and the cron for $2300. The new cron would be just seven hundred dollars short of the lux. Traditionally, asph lenses are usually quite a bit bulkier than non-asph versions. This would conceivably put the lux and the cron in the same neighborhood both price-wise and size-wise. Also, there will be a price gap from the summarit at $1500 and up to more than double for the cron. The current cron is already pretty close to perfection, with very little room for improvement. Am I missing something or is big L making a big mistake by discontinuing the current summicron? (like they did, In my opinion, when they discontinued the Elmarit 90 in favor of the summarit 90) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 22, 2012 Posted April 22, 2012 Hi skinnfell, Take a look here Rumored Summicron 50 ASPH. I dont get it.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted April 22, 2012 Share #2 Posted April 22, 2012 The key word is rumor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted April 22, 2012 Share #3 Posted April 22, 2012 What makes you think the `Lux will stay at $4000? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted April 22, 2012 Share #4 Posted April 22, 2012 What makes you think the `Lux will stay at $4000? And why would the new cron be $3,300? As you say - this rumour seems to try to add certainty to speculation ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted April 22, 2012 Share #5 Posted April 22, 2012 Several rumor sites claim that there is a new Summicron-M 50 mm Asph coming, and that it will be $1000 more expensive than the current. Rumour says a new Summicron-M 50 mm will come some day ... but no-one knows whether it's going to be Asph or not. Most likely it will cost a bit more than the current one ... but no-one knows if it's going to be $100 more or $1,000 more. Or whatever. Traditionally, Asph lenses are usually quite a bit bulkier than non-asph versions. That's just in your head. Some are bulkier indeed but then, some are the same size as their non-asph predecessors, and some are smaller. Still others (most, actually) have no predecessors at all. Am I missing something or is big L making a big mistake by discontinuing the current Summicron? For now, you basically are confusing rumours and imaginations with facts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWW Posted April 23, 2012 Share #6 Posted April 23, 2012 Logically, why not price a 50mm summicron ASPH (if there is one) around the same as the 35mm ASPH suummicron and 50mm ASPH summilux similar to the 35mm summilux? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted April 23, 2012 Share #7 Posted April 23, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Logically, why not price a 50mm summicron ASPH (if there is one) around the same as the 35mm ASPH suummicron and 50mm ASPH summilux similar to the 35mm summilux? Markets are more about perception, supply and demand and less to do with logic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkoush Posted April 23, 2012 Share #8 Posted April 23, 2012 Traditionally, asph lenses are usually quite a bit bulkier than non-asph versions. Not always true. The 28mm Elmarit-M ASPH is much smaller than the v4 that it replaced. The 90mm Summicron-M ASPH is exactly the same size as the pre-ASPH one, and the 21mm Elmarit-M ASPH is roughly the same size as the pre-ASPH version. I think size considerations matter when you introduce a floating lens element in the back. In that case it is inevitable to introduce additional bulk to support the motion of that element. Savvas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sm23221 Posted April 23, 2012 Share #9 Posted April 23, 2012 What's wrong with the current one? I'm not certain it can be improved much more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 23, 2012 Share #10 Posted April 23, 2012 Markets are more about perception, supply and demand and less to do with logic. Just as some comments seem all about perception, and not necessarily the facts. For instance, in this E. Puts 50 Summilux asph review, he mentions that just one glass element in the current lens costs more than all seven elements combined in the prior version. See the section on Glass Types for this and other pertinent information, including comments about the manufacturing process and related cost issues. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoshawnuff Posted April 23, 2012 Share #11 Posted April 23, 2012 What's wrong with the current one? I'm not certain it can be improved much more. I don't know if the winking emoticon is supposed to be intended as sarcasm, but if not, the cron is a 33 year old design that can at least be 'improved/modernized.' The current cron is prone to flare, doesn't have the smoothest bokeh (imo), softish definition around the edges, and has contrast that is typical of an older design (can be good or bad depending on your style or intended purpose). An asph version or new design is the one leica rumor I'm actually hoping materializes...Leica probably won't change size or price dramatically, because after all what's the point of two 50s that are the same size and price...as long as the rumored new cron has a 39mm filter size I'll be first in line to buy it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jneilt Posted April 23, 2012 Share #12 Posted April 23, 2012 I would think it offered, it would be a replacement of their current cron, not in addition to. Someone once told me that it would not be feasable to create an asph 50/2. I personally don't see how this statement is true. It would be cool, but would I ditch my current 50/2 for an asph version? No...I generally like my non-asph glass better (as a preference). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 23, 2012 Share #13 Posted April 23, 2012 Aspherical as such has not much to do with the rendering of a lens. The reason that you prefer non-asph lenses is because modern lenses, which happen to use asperical technology, are designed to the modern philosophy of Leica: High micro-contrast, high resolution, extremely low aberration level, etc. The older lenses, which happen to be non-aspherical, are less precise because of the technology of the era. So the aberrations will give you an image that you find more pleasing. Don't forget that the first Noctilux was an aspherical lens, and still you would love it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted April 23, 2012 Share #14 Posted April 23, 2012 Aspherical as such has not much to do with the rendering of a lens. The reason that you prefer non-asph lenses is because modern lenses, which happen to use asperical technology, are designed to the modern philosophy of Leica: High micro-contrast, high resolution, extremely low aberration level, etc. The older lenses, which happen to be non-aspherical, are less precise because of the technology of the era. So the aberrations will give you an image that you find more pleasing. Don't forget that the first Noctilux was an aspherical lens, and still you would love it. A reasonable question to ask is whether it is necessary to use aspherical elements in a 50/2 lens. Design problems multiply (a) at very large apertures ( at long focal lengths © at short focal lengths, or a combination (a) with ( or ©. [That is why Leica get a good level of performance in the Summarit range]. My guess would be that, should Leica feel the need to update the 50 Summicron from the classic design, they could well decide not to use aspherical technology, simply because it might not be needed, and would be more economical not to do so. This is not to presuppose that they actually do have any plans to do so! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 23, 2012 Share #15 Posted April 23, 2012 That is completely right. But whether Leica decides to use an aspherical element or not ( remember the 90 AA has one!) the way the lens renders will be completely in line with the current lenses, that means extremely precise, well corrected, high contrast, microcontrast and resolution. They will certainly strive to make it outperform the Summilux 50 asph. Which means some users will find it harsh and prefer the old Summicron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
haroldp Posted April 23, 2012 Share #16 Posted April 23, 2012 That is completely right. But whether Leica decides to use an aspherical element or not ( remember the 90 AA has one!) the way the lens renders will be completely in line with the current lenses, that means extremely precise, well corrected, high contrast, microcontrast and resolution. They will certainly strive to make it outperform the Summilux 50 asph. Which means some users will find it harsh and prefer the old Summicron. Thank you I would much rather start with a very sharp and clean image and 'soften' it as desired, than try to correct a flawed image, even if I like the flaws. Regards .... H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jneilt Posted April 23, 2012 Share #17 Posted April 23, 2012 Aspherical as such has not much to do with the rendering of a lens. The reason that you prefer non-asph lenses is because modern lenses, which happen to use asperical technology, are designed to the modern philosophy of Leica: High micro-contrast, high resolution, extremely low aberration level, etc. The older lenses, which happen to be non-aspherical, are less precise because of the technology of the era. So the aberrations will give you an image that you find more pleasing. Don't forget that the first Noctilux was an aspherical lens, and still you would love it. Jaap-I have been trying to find a nice clean Noctilux used to no avail. And yes, it is an easy call that I would love it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpalme Posted April 23, 2012 Share #18 Posted April 23, 2012 It was hard for me to believe my 50 cron can get much better but... I think people once thought the same about other lenses. For me I prefer the new 50 Summilux rendering so if the new Summicron is basically the same look I could see people paying 1k less for the f2. I think about $2700-2800 USD would be about right. And there won't be a shortage of buyers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokoshawnuff Posted April 23, 2012 Share #19 Posted April 23, 2012 3 of the 4 current production 50mm lenses can be argued as 'cheap/undervalued' when compared to the rest of the Leica lens line-up. I don't see that changing with the potential new summicron introduction. I may be in the minority but I will, without hesitation, trade my current cron for a new one (as long as it has the 39mm filter thread), I just hope it's close to 'optically on par' with the lux. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted April 23, 2012 Share #20 Posted April 23, 2012 There can never be enough 50 mm lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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