deltoid1 Posted February 28, 2007 Share #1 Posted February 28, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am surprised to say, I find that I cannot adjust to a rangefinder camera's workflow. I really do prefer an SLR, as I find it easier to frame and focus. I guess my eyes are not what they used to be. It's a real bummer to me, because I find that I really like the small size. Maybe a Rebel is in my future. Some of you know that I bought this black M8 about one week ago, along with a black 50 lux, both bought new from Camerawest. Haven't even put the neckstrap on or removed the plastic from the bottom plate. I also have an extra battery too. Fired off about 150 frames I think. Please make an offer. I don't know if this is the appropriate place for a For Sale post. p.s. Offer has to be sigbificantly better than what Camerawest will alow me to return the camera for. They have a 15% restocking fee. The camera has not been registered. I paid 4795 plus 2895 for the lens. I'll throw in the extra battery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 28, 2007 Posted February 28, 2007 Hi deltoid1, Take a look here Anyone want an M8? 50 'lux?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted February 28, 2007 Share #2 Posted February 28, 2007 Have your eyes measured by your optician and get the right corrective lens. I will be an eye-opener. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted February 28, 2007 Share #3 Posted February 28, 2007 Yes I agree with jaapv. I stuggled with focusing on all my M's. Using my glasses help some times and focus seemed to be OK on the film M's. Then I got a M8 and realized that I either needed some help or I had to drop the digital RF. I got the Leica diopter that works great for me. I am now a happy M8 user. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 28, 2007 Share #4 Posted February 28, 2007 Carmen why don't you give it a extra week, it takes some time to get used to these. I'm new to the M myself and even with all these years under my belt there is some growing pain to get used to the RF style but now i really like it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilfredo Posted February 28, 2007 Share #5 Posted February 28, 2007 Carmen, I use mine with glasses. It is a challenge but it's a matter of practice. The more you do it the better you get at it. The 1.25 magnifier is a big help, and can be used even with a 50mm lens. I suspect someone will make you an offer soon, if you haven't gotten one already, but I would give it a little more time. Cheers, Wilfredo+ Benitez-Rivera Photography Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveEP Posted February 28, 2007 Share #6 Posted February 28, 2007 I agree with all posted above - RF takes a little getting used to again (after a 20 year gap), and you need to give it more than a week. It took me at least a week to feel comfortable, and even now there are still times when I need to take that extra 5-10 seconds so get a shot focused how I really want it. But I think that is actually 'good' in many ways (as long as you don't have people in the shot getting bored!). It has slowed me down again. I am actually taking far fewer shots (partly because I can trust the focus - where I never really trusted AF), but now (almost) every shot is perfectly in focus (99.9%+) and a little better thought out.... So, give it another couple of weeks.... maybe a month. 150 shots is nothing. Maybe after 1500 shots you can really have a good idea..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted March 1, 2007 Share #7 Posted March 1, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) You might try the Megaperls x1.35 magnifier it has a built in dioptre (-3.0 - +1.5). I'd have a tough time focusing my M8 without it. Perfect with the 50. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
photolandscape Posted March 1, 2007 Share #8 Posted March 1, 2007 As you get older and your eyes start to go a bit, is it harder for someone to use a rangefinder if they are nearsighted, or farsighted? Just wondering whether there is a difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_tanaka Posted March 1, 2007 Share #9 Posted March 1, 2007 Yes, I agree with others' opinions to consider giving rangefinder photography a bit more practice. And practice is, in fact, exactly what rangefinder photography requires to achieve basic competence. Today's highly automated p&s and dslr cameras enable a chimp to take a properly focused and properly exposed image. (You can find many such images online and some for sale at New York galleries, in fact.) The dslr is a far more versatile and powerful imaging instrument. But the rangefinder is a specialist's tool. Certainly you want to ultimately be honest with yourself. If the M8 truly does not offer you any enhancement of your shooting style and is just a pain to use then cut your loss early and move on. Pre-M8, on the original Leica boards, there were many folks who took Ms for test drives and just decided that this style of photography was not for them. But since you've already gone to the trouble and significant expense to get an M8 maybe you owe yourself a bit more time with it. Assuming you don't demolish the camera it will certainly hold its resale value for some time. In the end, though, all that matters are your images. If you're getting the images you want or need without an M8 then you could be using that capital more effectively. I don't think that anyone needs and M8 today. Give it a bit more time but be honest with yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemayeux Posted March 1, 2007 Share #10 Posted March 1, 2007 I've shot M cameras for about 10 years, a M6,M7 and MP with .72 viewfinder. I didn't have any trouble with focus on the film cameras but the M8 is a little harder to see the focusing patch. I am forced to wear glasses because of stigmatism but after using the camera for about a month I have learned to get pretty good focus. I have a magnifier on order and will try it but I have to say I won't go back to the dslr. There is a 5D behind me now that hasn't seen the light of day in over a month. It will be going to a new home whenever I get around to putting it up for sale. I refuse to go back, bad eyesight or not. The M is just that much more enjoyable to use. My 28 and 35 are much easier on my eyes than my 50 and 75. A new Noctilux showed up in my mailbox Monday and I'm struggling with focus on it, but it's worth it. Give it some time, shoot, shoot and shoot, it's worth it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted March 1, 2007 Share #11 Posted March 1, 2007 Yes, I agree with others' opinions to consider giving rangefinder photography a bit more practice. And practice is, in fact, exactly what rangefinder photography requires to achieve basic competence. Today's highly automated p&s and dslr cameras enable a chimp to take a properly focused and properly exposed image. (You can find many such images online and some for sale at New York galleries, in fact.) The dslr is a far more versatile and powerful imaging instrument. But the rangefinder is a specialist's tool. Certainly you want to ultimately be honest with yourself. If the M8 truly does not offer you any enhancement of your shooting style and is just a pain to use then cut your loss early and move on. Pre-M8, on the original Leica boards, there were many folks who took Ms for test drives and just decided that this style of photography was not for them. But since you've already gone to the trouble and significant expense to get an M8 maybe you owe yourself a bit more time with it. Assuming you don't demolish the camera it will certainly hold its resale value for some time. In the end, though, all that matters are your images. If you're getting the images you want or need without an M8 then you could be using that capital more effectively. I don't think that anyone needs and M8 today. Give it a bit more time but be honest with yourself. Well said Ken and totally agree with you, give it some time and if it does not cut it for you than sell it but just give it a chance. There was a reason you bought it in the first place so explore that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted March 1, 2007 Share #12 Posted March 1, 2007 Actually, I find rangefinders easier on the eyes than slrs, esp if one is near sighted with or without astigmatism. Reason is that one is looking straight through the window vs a mirror about an inch from the eye. After a day shooting with an slr I feel like my eye is about to fall out of my head (actually learned to switch eyes while shooting). Only have that a bit with Ms (or Mamiya 6/7s which have amazing viewfinders). I use a diopter and have always thought about having one custom made with astigmatism correction. That said, it might just not be your thing. Or it takes lots of practice. At first I found myself very stiff with the M but after 10 plus years find I'm actually looser with it than slrs sometimes. It's all a matter of speed - if shooting people one has to be almost hyperkinetic - focus/reframe, focus/reframe, focus/reframe. and so on. One learns to focus real quickly and trust it. Also one has to visualise depth. Lowlight the M's kick everything else. Don't need the lux but nif I had the cash I'd take the 8 off ya. Probably won't for about another month or two though. My girlfriend is tempted to buy it for me just so I'll stop obsessing! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Olof Posted March 1, 2007 Share #13 Posted March 1, 2007 I am surprised to say, I find that I cannot adjust to a rangefinder camera's workflow. I really do prefer an SLR, as I find it easier to frame and focus. I guess my eyes are not what they used to be. It's a real bummer to me, because I find that I really like the small size. Maybe a Rebel is in my future. Some of you know that I bought this black M8 about one week ago, along with a black 50 lux, both bought new from Camerawest. Haven't even put the neckstrap on or removed the plastic from the bottom plate. I also have an extra battery too. Fired off about 150 frames I think. Please make an offer. I don't know if this is the appropriate place for a For Sale post. p.s. Offer has to be sigbificantly better than what Camerawest will alow me to return the camera for. They have a 15% restocking fee. The camera has not been registered. I paid 4795 plus 2895 for the lens. I'll throw in the extra battery. Try first the 1.25xx magnifier, i had the same problem at the 50mm LUX, now with the magnifier everything ist OK for me, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toplina Posted March 1, 2007 Share #14 Posted March 1, 2007 Have you sold the M8 yet? would you sell the camera only? I have the same lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted March 1, 2007 Share #15 Posted March 1, 2007 Carmen - I too cannot adjust to shooting rangefinders. In my case I could focus about as well with SLR or rangefinder. My problem was adapting well enough to the framing. Never could with a CL, a iiiF, a Rollei, a Minox, a Cosina and for that matter, I couldn't adapt well enough with a Rollei or Mamiya TLR. I tihnk I understand your frustration. However, since you have so much money tied up in it I agree that you should try for perhaps one more week before retreating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem7 Posted March 1, 2007 Share #16 Posted March 1, 2007 I have been using an RF since the Epson RD1. I had the Rd1 and after 2 weeks wanted to sell it as I coul dnot get used to the RF way of taking images. I ende dup selling it after a month or so and regretted it as i really missed the size and quality of the lenses. A year ago or so I bought an M7 and MP and shot film for 9-10 months straight. It took me 2-3 months to get good with the focus and used to shooting with an RF/M. Now I would not go back to an SLR for anything as I am so used to shooting with an M. It takes a while, but here is how it goes.. You recieve the camera and are excited and very pleased by its feel, build and qaulity workmanship. Same with the lenses. You start to shoot and some shots are OOF, or the framing is out of whack. You start to doubt your purchase of an RF, and think of selling due to cost of the system and the OOF images you are getting as you can do much better with a DSLR. if you get past that last stage, it gets much better from here on.. You will learn to frame very well, focus will become much easier and quicker, and your shots will improve greatly. (The quality from a good M8 raw file kills a Drebel) You will then NEVER want to go back to an SLR (unless you really need to) If you sell now, you will miss it and want it back. Going to a rebel after an M is not going to be satisfying in the long run. Trust me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghindle Posted March 1, 2007 Share #17 Posted March 1, 2007 I too have poor eyesight and laziness stopped me getting a corrective dioptre for my M cameras. However, i got my M8, and fitted a dioptre and it makes so much of a difference. It takes time to get used to Rangefinder as opposed to SLR, and i find i have difficulty adjusting back to SLR after being used to RF for so long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bernd Banken Posted March 1, 2007 Share #18 Posted March 1, 2007 Carmen, every instrument must be mastered. The better the instrument the more you have to train. But in the case of the M8 there is a big advantage compare to film Ms: the basket button. My very first RF, the M6 I took often without film just to train the brain.... My impression is that the wider lenses with the larger frame are closer to the full frame of SLRs in Take this magnifier and your 50mm lens will get a wider frame and a larger spot for focussing. In my case there was the wish to ride the tiger with appr. 60 years on the shoulder and lenses on my nose... Keep on shooting! Bernd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikelc Posted March 1, 2007 Share #19 Posted March 1, 2007 Carmen, ...here's another 'give it some more time' advice...i swithched to an m8 only three weeks ago after only working with dslr and a 1dsii no less which i love...but i took the m8 and not the canon to Greece last week and i'm glad i did..i took 1500 shots or so and now am starting to get more comfortable with it including the focusing patch...this was supposed to be my 'street' camera instead of getting a 5d ...but now there is no going back...tomorrow i'm off to photovillage to sell my canon and all my lenses...a month from now it won't be worth less than it is now but that might be enough time for you to find the niche that will feel right for you http://www.mikecetta.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
deltoid1 Posted March 2, 2007 Author Share #20 Posted March 2, 2007 Thanks everyone for the advice. I spent the day shooting another 100 or so exposures to try and get the feel for the M8. I'm pretty sure that it's gotta go though. A few days ago I walked around with a 28 1.8 on my 5D, and I really enjoyed the SLR framing and focusing. I think I simply don't like the whole rangefinder experience. One more day and I will make up my mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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