D3/L1 Lenses

[spylaw4]

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I'm finally just about ready to get an L1. I can't really justify the additional cost of the D3 version, even though the warranty is much better. I might change my mind tho' if there was an all-black D3!

 

I will, at least for now, be holding on to my D2, for all the reasons put forward in the D2 vs. D3 thread. So another reason for the L1 is that the saving will enable purchase of an additional lens, without having to part with the D2.

 

It seems as though it will be some time before the 14-150 OIS lens appears, and the main reason for getting the L1 is that I do miss having a mid-range telephoto, so we come to the reason for this thread - advice!

 

I know there is a whole raft of Oly/Sigma lenses to choose from, but my inclination is to get an R lens adapter and then possibly either an 80 or 90 mm R lens (2nd hand), and make use of the 2x crop factor.

1. What's the best one of those? 90/2.8 Elmarit, 80/1.4 'lux, 90/2.0 'cron?

2. Any others of any make that can be recommended to give between 135 - 180mm view?

 

Thanks in advance for your views, which I am sure will be many and varied!

[andit]

Hi Brian,

I was in a very similar position to you at the beginning of the year and also looked at all the options for the L1/D3. Looking at a telephoto lens, I had decided to look at the oly 50 - 200mm f/2.8-f/3.5 lens. This translates to 100 - 400mm in 35 format. I found this to be a very usefull range, in addition the oly lens works with the automatic options (no need for stop down metering) and the lens is reasonable in terms of cost. Not to mention that the lenses made by oly are everybit as capable as Canon "L" lenses.

 

Sadly, in the end, I decided against the L1/D3 and decided to sell off all my Canon gear, and take the plunge and ordered an M8. Still waiting in anticipation and in great excitement - Leica SA assurred me last week again that I'll get mine sometime between mid and end March. Only two comming into the whole country, and one is mine!

 

Sorry, I know this does not help you along a great deal.

 

Andreas

[luigi bertolotti]

If You can reach a 200mm equivalent and do not need top max aperture, consider seriously the more-than-excellent Apo Macro Elmarit 100: one of the best (many say THE BEST) R lenses ever appeared. If 200 eq. is too much, go for the Lux 80, in my op.

[jdlaing]

I have the 50-200 Olympus and it works just fine on the D3 (albeit no IS)

 

It is a bulky and heavy lens.

 

There is an alternative in the Olympus 18-180 but it is not near as fast as the 50-200.

[Riley]

Brian I like your reasoning

Im also hoping that its an idea that works out

not sure you are equipped with the necessaries , so

 

wrotniak.net: Using any Lens on Your E-System Camera

 

Adapters: Olympus E-1

 

"The Leica R to 4/3 Four Thirds adapter works with virtually all Leica R lenses, except lenses requiring mirror lock up."

 

Im not sure as to what lenses they are referring too, but you need to know this.

 

cheers

[audidudi]

wrotniak.net: Using any Lens on Your E-System Camera

 

FWIW, I'm using almost nothing but adapted 35mm-format lenses with my L1 and other than some minor exposure issues noted in the article cited above (but none that a slight tweak of the exposure compensation dial can't fix), I've achieved good results from them all.

 

The best of the lot (although too short for Brian's purposes) has been the Contax 45mm/f2.8 Tessar ... sharp, contrasty, virtually flare-proof, and of course, it has that (IMO) pleasing Zeiss color. Relatively inexpensive, too.

 

To that end, I have high hopes for the NOS Contax N-series zooms I've just purchased (17-35 and 24-85) but first I have to figure out a way to make them work on the L1 as the aperture is electronically controlled and can't be changed manually...

[Riley]

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Jeffrey.... its more usual for digital spec lenses to have quite different coating requirements than film lenses. For this reason double coated film lenses are preferred to single coated. So having said that, have you had any issues that would relate to coatings, like a propensity to flare or bloom.

[audidudi]

So having said that, have you had any issues that would relate to coatings, like a propensity to flare or bloom.

 

No, I haven't noticed any problems in this respect. In fact, the Leica kit lens actually exhibits more flare than any of the 35mm-format lenses I've used to date, which include: Nikon 35mm/f2.8 PC; Contax 45mm/f2.8 Tessar, 35mm/f2.8, 28mm/f2, 25mm/f2.8, 18mm/f4 Distagons; Leica 35mm/f2.8 Elmarit (2-cam); Minolta MC 58mm/f1.2, 35mm/f1.8.

 

In addition to the lenses mentioned above (save for the Minoltas, whose flange-to-focal plane distance is too short to work on my L1-cum view camera), I have also used several of my view camera lenses, including a Mamiya 50mm/f6.3 and Polaroid 75mm/f4 (both adapted from Mamiya's MF press cameras), Mamiya 55mm/f4.5 (adapted from a Mamiya TLR), 100mm/f5.6 Apo-Sironar, and a 55mm/f4.5 Apo-Sironar, and they've all performed at least adequately, if not quite up to the resolution of the 35mm-format lenses. (Note: The Mamiya 55mm/f4.5 TLR lens actually performs quite a bit better than adequately, although it tends to flare in strong backlighting situations, and -- surprise, surprise -- it's another Tessar design. Have you noticed I have a thing for Tessar designs? My favorite of all is the 80mm Minolta Autocord lens but adapting one of these to work on a view camera isn't as easy as the Mamiyas since they use a shutter that's integral to the camera and would need to be remounted into another shutter. The Mamiyas, on the other hand, are already mounted in shutters and just need to be remounted on a Toyo lensboard. But that's another story...)

 

Your comments about coatings are one of the reasons I decided to gamble on the Contax N-series zooms. In addition to both being relatively new designs (2000-ish), they were designed from the start for use on a full-frame digital camera (the N-Digital) and thus, I'm hoping, this means the designs have been optimized accordingly, which as you (and Mike Johnson) have pointed out, isn't always the case. We shall see...

[spylaw4]

Thanks for the comments so far.

@Luigi - 200mm may be just that bit too long, but I note your view on the 'Lux 80, thanks.

@James - I think for another zoom I would prefer to wait for the Leica OIS one and see what it's like when it eventually appears.

@Riley - I have that URL bookmarked already!

@Jeffrey - I saw your comment in another thread re qualities of the Contax 45/2.8 Tessar. It would be nice to know if there was an equivalent 75mm + one in the same range.

[audidudi]

It would be nice to know if there was an equivalent 75mm + one in the same range.

 

There are plenty of Tessar-type 75-80mm lenses out there that might work but other than actually putting them on the camera and trying them it out, it's hard to predict the quality of the results. As has been pointed out by many people elsewhere, some film lenses do work quite well in digital imaging applications whereas others, even highly regarded ones, fail miserably. The ones I mentioned above either already belong to me or to a friend, so I didn't have anything to lose if they didn't work well. I also think it would be rather clunky to use a view-camera type lens on a handheld camera, since there's no focusing helical and you'd have to manually lock the shutter open ... neither is a problem on a view camera, though, so I have more flexibility than you do in this regard.

 

And now that I think of it, since the L1 has its own shutter, I wouldn't need to remount an Autocord lens in a new shutter since all I need is aperture control. Ditto for the 38mm/f4.5 Zeiss Biogon lens I have, although I understand the flange-to-focal plane distances is too short to achieve infinity focus.

[Pygoscelis]

I am seriously considering a D3/L1 too. The one thing that gives me pause is the bulk of the body. I would like a compact setup that is more convenient. The D2 would be perfect but I can't abide the EVF. Hence, is there a small, compact lens that can be used with the D3/L1 that will give excellent results? I am most interested in the 28 or 35 (equiv) range (ie 14 or 18 on the D3/L1).

 

Thanks for any recommendations.

[bohtho]

Sorry to hijack..just it´s very related...

 

I am also in the market for more lenses for my D3. Are there any more with OIS and an aperture ring that would work on the D3 (either with an adapter or four thirds bayonet) ?

[dugby]

I am seriously considering a D3/L1 too. The one thing that gives me pause is the bulk of the body. I would like a compact setup that is more convenient. The D2 would be perfect but I can't abide the EVF. Hence, is there a small, compact lens that can be used with the D3/L1 that will give excellent results? I am most interested in the 28 or 35 (equiv) range (ie 14 or 18 on the D3/L1).

 

Thanks for any recommendations.

 

 

Lloyd...not sure if you've held both a D2 and D3 in your hands. I own both. But the body sizes are pobably with 10% of each other, D3 being larger, slightly.

 

There has been previous discussion about how the D3 is larger than the D2,..... the majority of this is the actual lens size.

 

The L1 body also feels very much like an M6, to touch and hold. (My cousin has a M6 that I get to play with). The L1 body feels like a fine precision steel instrument compared with the D2.

[audidudi]

Hence, is there a small, compact lens that can be used with the D3/L1 that will give excellent results? I am most interested in the 28 or 35 (equiv) range (ie 14 or 18 on the D3/L1).

 

Unfortunately, there aren't any such lenses available at the moment. The Voigtlander 12mm and 15mm lenses that would otherwise be very appealing have a flange-to-focal plane distance that's too short to achieve infinity focus on the D3/L1. And all of the other commonly available 14-18mm lenses that could be used via an adapter are much too large to be referred to as "compact."

 

However, if you can live with a longer focal length, there are some small, even tiny, lenses that can yield very good results. For instance, I did some shooting with a manual-focus Contax 45mm/f2.8 Tessar this past weekend and am very impressed by the results. Even including the 4/3-Contax adapter, the lens is slightly under 1" long ... it's actually so short that I find it difficult at times to adjust the aperture ring because it's so close to the body!

 

Anyway, while this lens is great for portraiture and available at reasonable prices on the used market (I paid $200 for mine), it's a bit too long to serve as a walk-around lens.

 

As for the size of the body, it's a bit larger and heavier than its D2/LC1 predecessor -- Dugby's 10% estimate seems about right -- and about the size of your typical '70s SLR camera. I was a bit put off by its size at first but now I don't give it a second thought...

[Pygoscelis]

Thanks Dugby and Jeffrey: that's a shame about the existing range if lenses - as I want the camera to fill the gap between my Canon DSLR gear and my D-Lux 3. That is, I really want a take anywhere unit that will deliver excellent results. None of the P&S's I looked at fulfil this function (even the D-Lux 3). Are there any lenses on the Leica/Panasonic or Olympus road maps that might turn the D3 into a poor man's M8 in the future?

[Riley]

Lloyd there isnt much wrong with Olympus glass

see what they say about them here,

and maybe check out the Nikon/Canon fields too where you might be on more familiar territory, very useful site

 

PhotoZone

 

there are something like 5 lenses each from Leica D and Olympus for this year

and the rest of the Sigmas for those who are into that

 

mostly, newer digital lenses need to be better than film lenses for 2 reasons

the crop factor eats into resolution pretty quickly

the digital sensors dont like more angular light

what film lenses offer for me are cheap long lenses

wides are best left to Olympus 4/3, the 7-14 and 11-22 are excellent anyway

 

Olympus lenses out resolve the sensors for the present

[audidudi]

Upon further reflection, I now think it might be possible to successfully use the Nikon F-mount version of Voigtlander's Leica screw-mount 12mm and 15mm lenses on a D3/L1, at least so long as you're willing to use its "Live View" / mirror-lockup feature, which means you'll need to compose and focus your images with the LCD instead of the viewfinder and use its manual exposure mode.

 

Unlike a 35mm SLR with a locked-up mirror, the "Live View" feature of the D3/L1 lets you continue to see what you're about to capture right up to the instant you fire the shutter. This is a big plus over a 35mm SLR, which requires you to scale focus and frame your shots by pointing the camera in the general direction of your subject. The only problem is that Voigtlander lenses are non-retrofocus designs (because they were originally intended for use on rangefinders, which don't have mirrors that move) and the rear elements extend quite far into the mirror box. As such, there is no question that the mirror will come into contact with it when it tries to close and because the L1's mirror is programmed to close prior to each exposure in order to bounce the image to the meter so it can calculate the proper exposure setting, there's no way to prevent it from making contact with the lens each and every time you take a photo.

 

Which raises an obvious question: If the mirror does make contact with the lens, what, if any, harm will this cause to either the camera or to the lens?

 

After crossing my fingers, I decided to test this by simulating what will happen when the mirror comes into contact with the extended rear element of the Voigtlander lenses. To play it safe, I decided use a tampon ... it was handy, about the correct size, and fairly soft, so if any damage did occur, it should be minimal.

 

And the answer? Nothing happened!

 

I tried this several times and the mirror simply travels as far as it can, makes contact with the tampon, stops, and remains in contact with it until it's time to return to its open resting position. So far as I can see, there's no damage caused by this at all, at least in the short-term ... it's obviously too early to tell if any long-term damage is being caused, but I don't plan on keeping this camera for more than a few years, so who cares?

 

What this means then is that you should be able to mount one of these Voigtlander F-mount lenses on the camera via a 4/3->Nikon adapter, compose and focus your image using the LCD and do your metering manually, and end up with a very compact, very lightweight, reasonably affordable pair of fixed-focal length lenses with 35mm-equivalent focal lengths of 24mm and 30mm. Yes, they're fairly slow by Leica standards (so your preview image will be a bit on the dark side) and you won't have OIS to compensate for the slower shutter speeds you'll likely be using, but on the positive side, these lenses are also relatively inexpensive ($699 for the 12mm/f5.6, $459 for the 15mm/f4.5) and reputed to be very good performers. That said, though, they're the only show in town, so it's either them or nothing.

 

Hmm. I'll have to think about this for a bit but I suspect I'm going to order a 12mm version from Cameraquest today and see whether I'm on the right track here or not. (Yes, I realize the Olympus 11-22 zoom would be less expensive and more versatile, but it's too large and too heavy to be part of a discrete walk-around camera setup.) Stay tuned...

[luigi bertolotti]

Brian I like your reasoning

Im also hoping that its an idea that works out

not sure you are equipped with the necessaries , so

 

wrotniak.net: Using any Lens on Your E-System Camera

 

Adapters: Olympus E-1

 

"The Leica R to 4/3 Four Thirds adapter works with virtually all Leica R lenses, except lenses requiring mirror lock up."

 

Im not sure as to what lenses they are referring too, but you need to know this.

 

cheers

 

"...Lenses requiring mirror lock up..." : You can go sure with any reasonable Leica R lens you have or can find: the only Leica R lens that required mirror lock-up was the very first Super Angulon 21 mm f 3,4 (no retrofocus), shortly produced for tha first Leicaflex (not the SL line, really the first SLR from Wetzlar) : it's a collector item, difficult to find and very noticeable for its strange construction.

[spylaw4]

Thanks you for that bit of info Luigi.

I'm also looking into (via the wrotniak link above) an 85mm/1.7 Rokkor as a possibility.

[Riley]

that site is a wonderful resource Brian

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear