tgray Posted February 9, 2012 Share #61 Posted February 9, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I understand zone focussing- but still it seems that the forum members assume a few things that are common amongst Leica users: - we are mainly street photographers - we are too 'stealth' to be allowed to use the LCD. I think street photography is fun, but I'm pretty horrible at it. 99% of my photography isn't street. However, I often use prefocus my 21 mm lens and just frame through the accessory finder. I find it very fast and convenient. Checking framing with the LCD is a perfectly acceptable way to do things, but for wouldn't really work for me if I'm shooting people, since situations are fluid and I can't really take a second shot to correct for poor framing on my part. The moment will have past. And most of what I shoot is people. If on the other hand, I only ever shot scenes/things where I can always take a second or third shot to correct for framing, I could see where checking the LCD is a totally viable option. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 Hi tgray, Take a look here 21 for My M9. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lars_bergquist Posted February 9, 2012 Share #62 Posted February 9, 2012 I understand zone focussing- but still it seems that the forum members assume a few things that are common amongst Leica users: - we are mainly street photographers - we are too 'stealth' to be allowed to use the LCD [ ... ] The young-ish man who likes silicon. I think tgray answered your question as well as I did; and perhaps it is more acceptable if two people say the same, one of them not being me? The Leica begs to be used in the mid-stream of life. That is why it became a success in the first place. There were lots of large, slow stand cameras in the 1920's, complete with glass plate holders and focusing cloths. Why do we not use them still? Now of course you can use your Leica as if it were a large, slow stand cameras in the 1920's, complete with glass plate holder and focusing cloth. But clearly, this is not what the camera is best for. Go get yourself a 4x5" field camera. And stealth has nothing to do with it. Speed has. Because while we diddle and dither, the world around us moves on. Even if 'the world' is just your cat (cats do always wake up and move away when you aim a camera at them. Strange evolutionary reflex. Nobody knows why.) The oldish man who loved film but loves silicon even better Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 9, 2012 Share #63 Posted February 9, 2012 Back to the OP, Sean Reid has just published a five way test of 21mm lenses on the M9 and as usual comes to some very interesting conclusions. You will have to subscribe to discover if your 21mm SEM, Elmarit, Skopar, Biogon C or Biogon are any good , but I'm mildy smug with the results for the f/2.8 ZM Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
innerimager Posted February 9, 2012 Share #64 Posted February 9, 2012 Ah- but what about all the apparent and much talked about 'problems' with parallax because of the alleged location of the ext vf on the hotshoe? R Neither the first, nor I hope the last alleged problem I have not encountered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrogers Posted February 10, 2012 Share #65 Posted February 10, 2012 Ah- but what about all the apparent and much talked about 'problems' with parallax because of the alleged location of the ext vf on the hotshoe? R I'm with innerimager, I don't know what these folks are talking about. I use the finder's frameline gaps to center things, and it works pretty well. You definitely do have parallax issues regarding distance, but that's an up-down problem shared by all external finders, the left-right thing is no issue. I have tried shooting 21 without a finder, and find it too fussy, with too many shoot-chimp cycles. With a finder I can use my meager brainpower on the image rather than for imagining invisible edges. I could use a tripod instead, but why bother when the finder is quicker, lighter, and less trouble? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted February 10, 2012 Share #66 Posted February 10, 2012 So any 21mm vf would be ok. There's a couple of VCs on eBay. One is really cheap at the moment- worth a shot? Phone/iPad URL: Voigtlander Bessa-L 21mm Viewfinder perfect for Panasonic LX-3 Digital Camera Browser URL: Voigtlander Bessa-L 21mm Viewfinder perfect for Panasonic LX-3 Digital Camera Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted February 10, 2012 Author Share #67 Posted February 10, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm with innerimager, I don't know what these folks are talking about. I use the finder's frameline gaps to center things, and it works pretty well. You definitely do have parallax issues regarding distance, but that's an up-down problem shared by all external finders, the left-right thing is no issue. I have tried shooting 21 without a finder, and find it too fussy, with too many shoot-chimp cycles. With a finder I can use my meager brainpower on the image rather than for imagining invisible edges. I could use a tripod instead, but why bother when the finder is quicker, lighter, and less trouble? I agree, I received my 21 finder two days ago and find it extremely useful on my 24 right now. I know where the gap is to frame shots. Now I just need a 21. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darylgo Posted February 11, 2012 Share #68 Posted February 11, 2012 Several months back I was able to look at a Leica 24mm finder and Voigtlander at the same time and make some comparisons. The Voigtlander had the fisheye front and the optics showed barrel distortion, in addition the accuracy was poor on an M9. The Leica had/has neither issue. After purchasing the metal finder I also found the plastic version (I believe it is made for a Leica Point and Shoot) and comparison showed them to be identical in every way except plastic/metal differences. As pointed out these finders have framelines for M8 also, so the 24 finder has frames for 32mm. This is close to 35mm and does double duty. I have an old 21mm finder that is in junk condition, the metal is fine but the optics show internal fracture and haze. A local repair said it could not be disassembled and cleaned. Has anyone had success with lens replacement in these beautiful finders? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted February 11, 2012 Share #69 Posted February 11, 2012 Darn it. Theres a 21mm VC finder on eBay at the moment for 30 quid. Is it that bad? There's a couple of the older Leica 21mm finders for about 250 and a new model used for 450. Seems so much money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted February 11, 2012 Share #70 Posted February 11, 2012 Sean Reid just released his 21mm lens review for M9. He reviewed 5 lenses this time. Worth a look. He goes to length discussing the pros and cons of all the finders from Leica, Zeiss and and I believe Voigtlander. It is a very complete article with comparisons of these VF and worth the subscription, not to mention his lens comments which go on forever. The article is so long that I have not finished it yet, but like most of his articles, it leaves no one guessing. However, he lets the reader make his own conclusions. You might conclude differently than I might conclude. Fair enough. He did not review the 21/1.4 in this article, but that will come later on an M9 even though he reviewed the lens extensively on his M8, I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted February 11, 2012 Share #71 Posted February 11, 2012 Is it that bad? Yes There's a couple of the older Leica 21mm finders for about 250 old plastic finder - some like 'em, some don't …new model used for 450. Seems so much money. It's worth every penny. Only better 21mm finder is the Konica Dual 21-35 plastic finder - it's nowhere near as well made, but it has a higher eye point, similar low distortion, a bigger view, higher magnification, a brighter view and shows more of scene outside the 21mm frame. It's so rare though, you might only be able, to find one for the price of a 21 Super Elmar with a Konica Dual lens thrown you, if you can find one of the only 800 ever made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
haroldp Posted February 11, 2012 Share #72 Posted February 11, 2012 Neither the first, nor I hope the last alleged problem I have not encountered. I agree. The location of the Leica built in view / rangefinder is also offset, about the same as the hotshoe.. If you need exact juxtaposition of fore and background objects, either do a slight shift or use an SLR. Framing on a 21mm viewfinder is loose enough that parallax for framing is irrelevant. If you are worried about it, the frankenfinder does a good job. Regards ...H Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted February 11, 2012 Share #73 Posted February 11, 2012 Just out of interest- are all Leica finders offset of just the latest incarnation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
akiralx Posted February 11, 2012 Share #74 Posted February 11, 2012 Darn it. Theres a 21mm VC finder on eBay at the moment for 30 quid. Is it that bad? Actually no - the plastic Voigtlander finder I have is very good, and very accurate. Compares favourably with the Universal finder I sometimes use with the WATE. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted February 13, 2012 Share #75 Posted February 13, 2012 Ok so did I get a good deal then.. I got what hopefully is a pretty immaculate used 21mm finder off fleabay. It's the newest Leica one and I got it for 330 pounds. It appears to be from a Leica dealer in Germany. I'm hoping it's all legit. Praying I'm not going to get a whole bunch of replied warning me of something nasty. One thing that did cross my mind was how come it was a fair bit cheaper than other ones on sale and that as its from a Leica dealer they would be aware of the going rate? I think it's a good price seeing as though 2nd hand previous plastic finders are. Selling upwards of 200 pounds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share #76 Posted February 14, 2012 Ok so did I get a good deal then.. I got what hopefully is a pretty immaculate used 21mm finder off fleabay. It's the newest Leica one and I got it for 330 pounds. It appears to be from a Leica dealer in Germany. I'm hoping it's all legit. Praying I'm not going to get a whole bunch of replied warning me of something nasty. One thing that did cross my mind was how come it was a fair bit cheaper than other ones on sale and that as its from a Leica dealer they would be aware of the going rate? I think it's a good price seeing as though 2nd hand previous plastic finders are. Selling upwards of 200 pounds. I would say you got a very good deal. Not knowing the exact exchange rates compared to what I paid, I think you did well. My finder was used and you could not see any use on it except for the box. I paid $700 US. The retail is about $850. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted February 14, 2012 Share #77 Posted February 14, 2012 I would say you got a very good deal. Not knowing the exact exchange rates compared to what I paid, I think you did well. My finder was used and you could not see any use on it except for the box. I paid $700 US. The retail is about $850. I think it's about £446 what you paid- mine was about £100 less so seems so far I did well. Let's see what arrives in the mail! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted February 14, 2012 Author Share #78 Posted February 14, 2012 I think it's about £446 what you paid- mine was about £100 less so seems so far I did well. Let's see what arrives in the mail! That is a good deal. Mine was virtuallly brand new and the guy said he had only taken it out of the case a couple of times. Brand new from B&H they are now $759 if they have them in stock and include free shipping. Mine included free shipping as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted February 15, 2012 Share #79 Posted February 15, 2012 Let's hope it actually arrives then. I always have a little doubt about eBay! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
satureyes Posted February 15, 2012 Share #80 Posted February 15, 2012 Hey all- not sure this is the right way of doing it but I've uploaded some examples of the 21 super Elmar. Had a few snaps on the way to a job today. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/showthread.php?t=223259 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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