eleskin Posted January 28, 2012 Share #1 Posted January 28, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) If I were to design a camera right now, I would have a design layout similar to the Fuji X Pro 1, minus the optical viewfinder. i would also have the same EVF system Sony has in its NEX 7 with focus peaking. The camera would also be full frame with the ability to use all Leica M lenses with no problems and have superior high ISO and color (Fuji?). The price would be somewhere between $2,500 and $3000 USD. So why can't these knucklehead camera companies get their act together and build the camera I have described above? Whoever would make it could outsource Sony for the EVF and other companies to get the job done at a reasonable price. So what gives? It is pathetic that we still do not have something like this in 2012!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 28, 2012 Posted January 28, 2012 Hi eleskin, Take a look here THE CAMERA WE NEED ! ANYONE LISTENING?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted January 28, 2012 Share #2 Posted January 28, 2012 I don't need one. You can't confuse your "wants", with a universal "need" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 28, 2012 Share #3 Posted January 28, 2012 I'm sure somebody in China can build it for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted January 28, 2012 Share #4 Posted January 28, 2012 I actually think Leica is the only one that could make a mirrorless EVF full frame camera.. All other companies would have to include AF lenses and it would be the size of Canon/Nikon FF DSLRs. Some current NEX lenses are already much bigger than the Noctilux.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckw Posted January 28, 2012 Share #5 Posted January 28, 2012 I actually think Leica is the only one that could make a mirrorless EVF full frame camera.. All other companies would have to include AF lenses and it would be the size of Canon/Nikon FF DSLRs. Some current NEX lenses are already much bigger than the Noctilux.. I tend to agree with the OP that a camera, as described, would be very, very attractive to Leica M users. It could even come in at a higher price point. However, I also agree, as quoted above, that Leica would probably be the only company with sufficient incentive to build such a camera. What other makers would would be willing to make a camera that can be used only with other manufacturer's (read mostly Leica's) manual lenses? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
okram Posted January 28, 2012 Share #6 Posted January 28, 2012 Finder is the single most important part of the camera. And you want to put a (at the moment) virtually unusable electronic finder in a camera? Please read Sean Reid’s “Seeing the subject” at reireviews.com I agree though that Leica has to move from this kind of approach to M, and make a true professional M-lens camera with weather seals and ruggedness, instant on form sleep and overall better power management etc to be asking for the price they ask now. (I am working with an M8 for years now…) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted January 28, 2012 Share #7 Posted January 28, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have to agree with Andy here. Design depends on meeting a large enough need to justify production, if not a universal need -- no matter how much you shout. The optical view/rangefinder of the Leica M is a masterpiece. I have no idea about the X-pro-1, I haven't seen one. It is very likely we shall see more cameras with combined electronic/optical finders, or EVFs may take over completely, including from SLRs. They have lots of advantages, most significantly the ability to mount and focus all optics while keeping the camera body compact. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted January 28, 2012 Share #8 Posted January 28, 2012 ... So why can't these knucklehead camera companies get their act together and build the camera I have described above? ... It is pathetic that we still do not have something like this in 2012!!!!! Since you're obviously much cleverer than the 'knucklehead camera companies' why don't you build it? Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted January 28, 2012 Share #9 Posted January 28, 2012 Zzzzzzzzzzzzz... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleskin Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share #10 Posted January 28, 2012 This camera can have a mount similar to the NEX to encourage the use of lenses made by the manufacturer. By having a NEX type mount, you can with adapters, use the M lenses. This camera would have a very wide appeal in that with full frame, and a NEX 7 type evf, you would be able to use any lens ever made for the 35mm format and smaller, the first really true universal digital camera body ever made. Something like that would sell like like crazy. Adorama and B&H would have a very hard time keeping a camera like this in stock. Because it would be made like the Fuji X1 Pro and or Nex 7, any idea that just because you can mount a Leica lens on it the price should be thousands more is just crazy and nuts! $2500 - $3000 USD is a very fair and attractive price. this camera would be aimed to anyone who has lenses, not just Leica owners. To me, Lenses are what matters. I have Leica lenses, but also Voigtlander, Fuji, Minolta, Russian, Pentax, etc,,,,.. Each lens has a different look and I select that lens for the result I need. Some of the lenses just happen to be Leica. If they were made by someone else, it would not matter to me at all. Any full frame camera that can take advantage of that is a serious tool for creating photographs. On a side note: Leica is overpriced. Lets admit it. SLR Magic is about to sell a 50mm f.95 lens for a fraction of the $11,000 Noctilux and from what I see on Steve huff's web page, this lens may outperform the Noctilux. It may be priced at $1,500 or so, but that is great news for artists and shooters, not collectors and people concerned with the name of the lens manufacturer. Hopefully we will see the camera I describe. Hey, maybe SLR Magic will consider making it. Maybe I will call them up! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eleskin Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share #11 Posted January 28, 2012 Yes, the Leica M viewfinder and rangefinder is a masterpiece. So was the Graf Zeppelin, and yet the airplane prevailed. I am not condemning the rangefinder design. I have 2 M8's, and M6 and an M4-2. Obviously I like the camera Leica makes. However, I bought a NEX 5n, and with lenses that have shallow depth of fields like the Noctilux, 35mm Nokton, long lenses, etc,, the rangefinder is not as effective. We must also remember rangefinders were always preferred for wider lenses for focus accuracy. I am seeing it in my own work. I am getting more shots in focus with the NEX than with my M8 when using a Noctilux. I have been in photography professionally since 1989 and have been shooting M Leicas since 1991 with many tens of thousands of exposures and many trips around the world. The NEX focusing system with peaking is a 21st Century masterpiece. The rangefinder has its place. I am ready to embrace something else, not to replace the Leica rangefinder, but to use along side of it. Any camera maker that makes that easy has my attention. Sony and Fuji are going in the right direction! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sp12 Posted January 28, 2012 Share #12 Posted January 28, 2012 While I agree and EVF/focus peaking are the future, I don't think Leica's ready to make that for you, let alone at that price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 28, 2012 Share #13 Posted January 28, 2012 "WE need" - I don't who's the 'we'? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 28, 2012 Share #14 Posted January 28, 2012 Keep your eye out for whatever Olympus is doing with their "OM" digital revival. All rumors, but may include m4/3rds and larger sensors - with EVF in the "prism" hump. Meanwhile, to make use of the wonderful headline, here's the camera I want (and no, there is probably not enough market that I'll actually get it ). 25-megapixel, square sensor. (5000 x 5000). CMOS with "live-view," driving a 3" LCD on the top, with a built-in collapsible hood. Think of it as a Hassy 500C + CFV back, minus the SLR baggage (mirror and space for it to move). Or a Rollei TLR with a single "L." Or a Sony R-1 with a serious quality upgrade (and lose the side grip - not ergonomic for waistlevel work) http://www.a-digital-eye.com/SonyDsc-R1/sony%20r1%20top.jpg The LCD (plus hood) could pivot as in the R-1 - or not. I'm flexible about the lens mount. A shortish back-focus, and a 30mm x 30mm sensor, would allow adapting almost any 35mm-format lens ever made (those without aperture rings need not apply!) at roughly the original field of view (same image circle). Leica M, Leica R, Canon FD, Beseler Topcon Could even have AF - move the whole darn front of the camera around as did the Rollei 66: http://rollei.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Rollei-SL66.jpg But I could live with a different sensor size and dedicated set of lenses, or even a built-in zoom, so long as they could deliver 25 Mpixels of resolution. Bigger sensor = more "MF look" - background blur and such. It wouldn't replace my M9, by any means. Just a different way to view the world. Any takers? Any investors? Maybe I'll just build it myself...... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/171498-the-camera-we-need-anyone-listening/?do=findComment&comment=1911586'>More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 28, 2012 Share #15 Posted January 28, 2012 If I were to design a camera right now, I would have a design layout similar to the Fuji X Pro 1, minus the optical viewfinder. i would also have the same EVF system Sony has in its NEX 7 with focus peaking. The camera would also be full frame with the ability to use all Leica M lenses with no problems and have superior high ISO and color (Fuji?). The price would be somewhere between $2,500 and $3000 USD. So why can't these knucklehead camera companies get their act together and build the camera I have described above? Whoever would make it could outsource Sony for the EVF and other companies to get the job done at a reasonable price. So what gives? It is pathetic that we still do not have something like this in 2012!!!!! I can't think of anything I need less than that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 28, 2012 Share #16 Posted January 28, 2012 So why can't these knucklehead camera companies get their act together and build the camera I have described above? Why would anyone want such a camera? It’s not a rangefinder camera. It’s not a state-of-the-art automatically focusing camera either. You could use the camera with AF lenses and lose the AF capabilities of the latter, or you could use it with lenses designed for a rangefinder camera, only without the benefits of a rangefinder. Camera vendors are not developing such a camera because it would be of rather limited appeal. Assuming there was interest in a camera supporting manual focus based on an electronic viewfinder (you haven’t explained why one would prefer this over a rangefinder viewfinder but I’d say it would be useful for both macro shots and long focal lengths), Leica could easily satisfy such a demand by implementing live-view in the M10 (assuming it has a CMOS sensor). You could use its display as the viewfinder or perhaps attach an optional electronic viewfinder. On the other hand it would handle like a traditional M if that’s what you want. That would be a camera offering the best of both worlds whereas your proposed design looks more the worst of both worlds to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted January 28, 2012 Share #17 Posted January 28, 2012 ... Leica is overpriced. Lets admit it. ... No, let's not. The price is the price. It's simple economics. If you think the price is too expensive then vote with your feet and don't buy it. That it the only option open to you and the only way that you can influence the price. If enough people agree with you then the goods won't sell and Leica would have to decrease the price to sell. What you're actually saying is that the price Leica is asking is more than you want to pay. So don't pay. Complaining about the price will not affect it. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzo Posted January 28, 2012 Share #18 Posted January 28, 2012 ... So why can't these knucklehead camera companies get their act together and build the camera I have described above? ... .... or, you should try getting an MP instead. .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio58 Posted January 28, 2012 Share #19 Posted January 28, 2012 Leica is overpriced. Lets admit it. ! Do not see that myself. I paid $13,000 for the 1DS theen the 1DS2 and about $12,000 for the 1DS3.... now that is overpriced. Leica by contrast is a bargain. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 28, 2012 Share #20 Posted January 28, 2012 My M doesn't present any significant barriers toward making the kinds of photographs I want to make. I consider that invaluable. Happy to be a knucklehead. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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