ncc1701 Posted January 20, 2012 Share #1 Posted January 20, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Can someone tell me if this is truly a triplet? From what I know the knurled focus ring and 39mm thread suggest this is of Walter Mandler designed triplet. It is also bayonet mount But all Serial number lists suggest its made in 1962: 1 913 001-1 967 100: 1962 According to Erwin Puts it is made in 1964: 4/90mm, Elmar , 3-element lens, 1964. This lens is a Canadian design and with only three single elements, a case-study of optical simplicity. Its full aperture performance is better than that of the predecessor with the classical 3 group/4 element construction. Overall contrast is a bit higher, the definition of fine detail has improved edge contrast and especially the performance in the field is much better. Vignetting is .7 stops. At 1:4 the contrast gets visibly higher and now very fine detail is recorded over the whole image area with good clarity. The Elmarit 1:2.8/90mm at 1: 4 cannot equal the 3-element Elmar here. Stopping down further brings in finer detail and at 1:11 we find image quality of a thoroughly modern level. This lens has been introduced at the same time as the Tele-Elmarit 1:2.8/90mm, which replaced the Elmarit 1:2.8/90mm. As the Tele-Elmarit could not be used with the bellows attachment and had not the best performance at closer distances, Leitz offered the Elmar as a lens for these applications. Close up performance is quite good. Distortion is negligible. It does show the intriguing strategy of fine tuning the lens performance for a specified set of tasks. It was not possible in those days to create one general purpose lens and so Leitz optimised the designs in different directions. A luxury that could not be extended indefinitely as it was a costly strategy. With modern glasses, this lens would deliver a very interesting performance. Any insight would be appreciated? I hope I am not violating any rules by quoting Puts? If it truly is, What is the value of this lens in decent condition, not mint but pretty nice? Thanks in advance. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/170917-walter-mandler-90mm-elmar-triplet/?do=findComment&comment=1903117'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Hi ncc1701, Take a look here Walter Mandler 90mm Elmar Triplet?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted January 20, 2012 Share #2 Posted January 20, 2012 Yes, this is the well known and still good Elmar 90 "3 elements", an item belonging to this batch : 1920001 1921000 Elmar 90 mm 1:4 (S+M) 1962 1000 (Puts - see our Wiki section) The items in Screw mount are surely few. The less common of the Elmars 90, but not rare in bayonet mount... a quick look at ebay and some dealers' sites can give you an idea of its value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted January 20, 2012 Share #3 Posted January 20, 2012 We do not give any valuation on this Forum see sticky threads on top of this Forum. Your lens is a genuine Elmar 4/90 - 3 Element Ref # 6 SM #8 M Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/170917-walter-mandler-90mm-elmar-triplet/?do=findComment&comment=1903461'>More sharing options...
wizard Posted January 20, 2012 Share #4 Posted January 20, 2012 While we are at it, the following text portion as quoted from E. Puts has always puzzled me: ...Its full aperture performance is better than that of the predecessorwith the classical 3 group/4 element construction. Overall contrast is a bit higher, the definition of fine detail has improved edge contrast and especially the performance in the field is much better. Vignetting is .7 stops. At 1:4 the contrast gets visibly higher and now very fine detail is recorded over the whole image area with good clarity. ... Full aperture performance is better ... At 1:4 the contrast gets visibly higher and ... Well, f4 IS the full aperture of this lens, so exactly when does the contrast gets visibly higher? From my own experience, the lens is already very good at full aperture, with just gradual improvements on stopping down. And to the OP: Yes, your lens is a copy of the 3-element Elmar 90. Enjoy it, as it is even today a terrific 90mm lens, small and lightweight and very flare resistant. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 20, 2012 Share #5 Posted January 20, 2012 My impression (after a working life in the publishing business) is that whatever his other virtues, Mr Puts does not check his texts after writing them. They are full of inadvertences like this one. The old man from the Age of Proofreading (THAT was very long ago ...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted January 20, 2012 Share #6 Posted January 20, 2012 Hello Everybody, The comparison of the 3 element 90mm F4 Elmar w/ the 90mm F2.8 Elmarit may also be read as: @ the image/object ratio of 1 : 4. That is to say @ 1/4 life size, as on a bellows. He later goes on to discuss the Tele-Elmarit as a lens which cannot be used on a bellows. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted January 20, 2012 Share #7 Posted January 20, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello Everybody, The comparison of the 3 element 90mm F4 Elmar w/ the 90mm F2.8 Elmarit may also be read as: @ the image/object ratio of 1 : 4. That is to say @ 1/4 life size, as on a bellows. He later goes on to discuss the Tele-Elmarit as a lens which cannot be used on a bellows. Best Regards, Michael Hi Micheal, I thought about that, too, but believe that Puts, judging by the context, is in fact referring to f4. Otherwise his sentence would not make any sense. He starts his comments by referring to full aperture, then goes on to say how the lens improves on stopping down (f4 should maybe read f5.6), and finally mentions f11 (note that in Europe f-stops are also denoted as 1:2.8 etc., as evidenced by the engraving on the front ring of at least the older Leica lenses). Best, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted January 20, 2012 Share #8 Posted January 20, 2012 Hello Andy, Thank you. It is interesting. On re-reading the original Post it looks like it is a translation which can be read various ways. On re-reading I think he was trying to say: The 3 element F4 is better @ F4 than the non-tele 90 F2.8 is @ F4 & that @ F11 the 3 element F4 is the equal of a modern lens. Also, separately, the 3 element F4 is a good close-up lens. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hiles Posted January 21, 2012 Share #9 Posted January 21, 2012 And to the OP: Yes, your lens is a copy of the 3-element Elmar 90. Enjoy it, as it is even today a terrific 90mm lens, small and lightweight and very flare resistant. I own this lens - and I think it is terrific. It is sharp, and the contrast is excellent. There is no vignetting that I can see in practice, which means I really like the pictures I get from it. I don't need larger apertures, I like the small size for traveling, and I have no incentive to buy a newer lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncc1701 Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share #10 Posted January 21, 2012 Thanks all for your insight! How in your experiences does this lens compare to the 90/4 Elmar-C? I will most likely keep this lens, it's in great shape and small! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted January 21, 2012 Share #11 Posted January 21, 2012 Hello ncc1701, Welcome to the Forum. btw: You might be interested to know you have been mentioned on this Forum on more than 1 occassion before your arrival. In the photo showing the front of your lens there is a chrome plated lens cap on the left. Is the item on the right of the lens #'d 16467 or perhaps lettered OUAGO ? Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncc1701 Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share #12 Posted January 21, 2012 Yes it is the OUAGO! I have been mentioned? hmm? Im assuming you are speaking of the Star trek reference, not actually me? Thanks again for your replies! This forum is an amazing asset to the RF community. I truly enjoy spending hours sifting through threads as I'm sure all of us do! Kudo's to you all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 21, 2012 Share #13 Posted January 21, 2012 Thanks all for your insight! How in your experiences does this lens compare to the 90/4 Elmar-C? I will most likely keep this lens, it's in great shape and small! On film, I preferred a lot the Elmar 3 elements (imho, the Elmar C wasn't in the same league as its brother Summicron C 40, expecially wide open) : on digital, never compared directly and Elmar C went sold in the meantime... ; Elmar 90 3 elements' head, with OUAGO and/or other accessories (bellows etc.) , is my preferred tool for macro with M8+Viso 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hiles Posted January 21, 2012 Share #14 Posted January 21, 2012 Elmar 90 3 elements' head, with OUAGO and/or other accessories (bellows etc.) , is my preferred tool for macro... I agree completely! This set up is the best close-up facility I have ever used or seen - Visoflex 3 (or 2), Bellows 2, and 3 element Elmar 90. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 21, 2012 Share #15 Posted January 21, 2012 Yup Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/170917-walter-mandler-90mm-elmar-triplet/?do=findComment&comment=1904547'>More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 23, 2012 Share #16 Posted January 23, 2012 I apparently have one of these Triplet Elmar lenses with SN# 2124xxx from 1965. I would like to know what is the Production era, how many were made and what is the closest focus distance. Thanks, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 23, 2012 Share #17 Posted January 23, 2012 Made in 1962-1965 ; 9400 assigned numbers (probably all made or next to - around 500 of them in screw mount). Focuses to 1 m. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted January 23, 2012 Share #18 Posted January 23, 2012 Made in 1962-1965 ; 9400 assigned numbers (probably all made or next to - around 500 of them in screw mount). Focuses to 1 m. I will say 1962 and 1965 3000 in 1962 including 500 SM in mixed batches 4800 in 1965 total 7800 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted January 23, 2012 Share #19 Posted January 23, 2012 Have you a trustable source, JC ? The number I wrote above (9.400) is reported in the Wiki based on Puts... but the sum indeed gives 7.400... (3000 - 1962, 4400 - 1965) with the screw mounts "mixed" within the single batches... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted January 23, 2012 Share #20 Posted January 23, 2012 ...How in your experiences does this lens compare to the 90/4 Elmar-C?... Sharpness and contrast are about the same I would say, but the most notable difference is vignetting at full aperture. While the 3-element version does not show any appreciable vignetting, the Elmar-C does so even at f5.6, needing f8 to avoid vignetting completely. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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