billh Posted February 24, 2007 Share #21  Posted February 24, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just for a joke, compare the M8 shutter noise to this movie, at just before the halfway mark: Video Canon EOS 1D Mark III - Canon, EOS, 1D, Mark, III - Dailymotion Partagez Vos Videos  Yes, but that camera is running at ten frames per second in the video. They also have a special single shot silent mode, which in my opinion the M8 could use, along with weather proofing. The M8 is louder and more obtrusive than the film Ms, and both the noise and the fact it cannot be used in high moisture situations limit its usefulness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 24, 2007 Posted February 24, 2007 Hi billh, Take a look here Shutter noise. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
charlesphoto99 Posted February 24, 2007 Share #22 Â Posted February 24, 2007 Why is the M8 so noisy? Other than the shutter there's no mirror and no film to transport. Â It's hard to beat my Rolleiflex or Maiya 6/7 cameras for unobtrusiveness in the noise dept. Â Not sure what Leica was (not) thinking.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanjuro Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share #23 Â Posted February 24, 2007 Thanks to all for the info. The shutter noise is an issue for me but not a deal breaker. I still want the M8, but it doesn't replace my film body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 24, 2007 Share #24 Â Posted February 24, 2007 I thought it would bother me, having used film Leica's for decades. It did - for about a week... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted February 25, 2007 Share #25 Â Posted February 25, 2007 I think that their measurements are strictly technical and fail to take into account the psychology of human perception.. Well actually not, according to the article, they measured with technical equipment and also with several people blinded and listening so they could give a human appreciation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steich Posted February 25, 2007 Share #26  Posted February 25, 2007 @rainerJ: How did you know I had the same idea ? ;-)))) The F4 "silent" shutter mode is at least a little less loud. Why shouldn´t Leica be able to implement that slow motion winding in the firmware, too?  Stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ennjott Posted February 25, 2007 Share #27 Â Posted February 25, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Would have been more correct & useful to list sone values. Sone reflects human perception. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted February 25, 2007 Share #28  Posted February 25, 2007 I found this helpful: Leica M8 Hands-on Preview: 5. Body & Design: Digital Photography Review  See the section on shutter / release sound, where they have an MP3 of an M7 and then an M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
egibaud Posted February 25, 2007 Share #29 Â Posted February 25, 2007 Would have been more correct & useful to list sone values. Sone reflects human perception. Â Well, I recommend people to get the article from "chasseur d'images" (this issue also included a complete review of each Leica lenses tested with an M8 plus some Zeis lenses). Â They did use both measurement, technical and human appreciation. Â Some examples: EOS 5D the EOS 400D, Leica M8, M7 Nikon D200, 2DX.. "technical" and Human appreciaiton measures indicate: Â EOS 400D 54db during 290ms Human appreciation 3/5 (5 being the best) EOS 5D 59db during 290ms Human appreciation 4/5 M8 58db during 450ms Human appreciation 3/5 M7 53db during 300ms Human apreciation 4/5 Nikon D200 58,5db during 280ms Human appreciation 2/5 Nikon D2xserie 58db during 280ms Human appreciation 2/5 Â This does show that human appreciation does not necessarily reflect what technical equipments measure. Not that for the human appreciation, testers were blinded and did not know which camera they were listening to. A Nikon D2x makes the same nise as an M8 but is not eared the same way by listeners. I think this is due to the "kind of sound" metal, plastic etc. the camera makes and the length of the noise. It would be very interesting to know what frequencies are involved, some surely "disturb" our ears more than others. Â Eric Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorflow Posted February 25, 2007 Share #30 Â Posted February 25, 2007 Would prefer to have extra option of winding the shutter manually ala Epson rather than the long auto wind after each shot. Perhaps the M8XP would have a manual lever as well as a externaol knob for setting ISO? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted February 25, 2007 Share #31 Â Posted February 25, 2007 Or the MP-Digital. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanjuro Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share #32  Posted February 26, 2007 The F4 "silent" shutter mode is at least a little less loud. Why shouldn´t Leica be able to implement that slow motion winding in the firmware, too?  Stefan  Oh man, that would be great, but could they do it? Anything to help the M8 lessen its winding noise is a big plus IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Read Posted April 5, 2007 Share #33 Â Posted April 5, 2007 SHUTTER NOISE Â The goal of this post is to propose a solution that SOMEONE with enough INFLUENCE with LEICA can actually ACHIEVE this solution that is viable without LEICA issuing a RECALL of the M8 in order to *FIX* the oversight (though talking about the idea is nice, the point is to get it implemented) - (WARNING: I am really fired-up about this, so I fear I will use more CAPITOL letters to get the point across than is usually socially desired in any internet forum, but this is how strongly I feel about the severity of this almost bug-like problem and the potential ease of it's solution): Â The overall reason why having a low shutter noise is so extremely critical is to take a picture with the lowest amount of discretion. When using the M8 Digital camera, the act of activating the shutter and thus "taking the picture" is immediately followed by a motor mechanically resetting the shutter. It is SPECIFICALLY the motor noise that is OUT-OF-CHARACTER for the LEICA-M "experience" [i want to avoid details about the specific loudness of the sound, though I love the recording of the two shutters that were posted, but in order to separate this from the PURPOSE of this post initiating a SOLUTION, I will reference the fact that the "click" of the shutter is "psychologically" LESS noticeable even at high volumes, when compared to even MUCH LOWER volumes of the motor noise, due to the fact that we as instinctive creatures "accept" a click noise as ambient natural aural phenomenon, MUCH more than the very obviously synthetic sound of a motor; not only HUMANS but other ANIMALS - so the motor sound is the thing we want to separate from the picture-taking process]. On the converse, when shooting with a LEICA M chemical film camera, the "click" happens all by itself and the "motor" that happens AFTERWARD is your hand, advancing the film and simultaneously resetting the shutter. Just as we would not sneak in front of the unaware-subject of out shot and advance the camera right in their face, we do not want the M8 doing this EITHER ! Â POTENTIAL SOLUTION FOR LEICE M8 SHUTTER NOISE FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF MINIMIZING THE NOISE AT THE MOMENT OF TAKING THE PICTURE: Â * MANUAL or AUTOMATIC SHUTTER RESET OPTION: LEICA implements a software only upgrade that allows the user to DECIDE if the MOTOR will reset the shutter AUTOMATICALLY, right after the picture is taken *OR* AFTERWARDS, when the user CHOOSES to MANUALLY reset the shutter - IN THE SAME PROCEDURE A FILM PHOTOGRAPHER (without an auto-winder) HAS ALWAYS USED. Â (please refrain from comparisons and justifications or exceptions - the "M" is a SPECIAL camera with a SPECIAL need and so are it's users - I however do not know how to get this to the "proper" authorities at LEICA, so I am posting this with the single-minded goal if opening the discussion for taking this FIX to the M8 as fast as possible. Â I.M.H.O. Â ~ m Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Read Posted April 5, 2007 Share #34 Â Posted April 5, 2007 Thanks for all the people who have also thought of OPTIONAL MANUAL SHUTTER RESET earlier, as well as the idea of making it optionally reset the shutter sslloowwlly, if it can be quiter. I hope some options appear soon. Does Leica want to do this or is shutter noise so low on the RADAR, with all of the image quality problems that they are dealing with ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisC Posted April 5, 2007 Share #35 Â Posted April 5, 2007 .......It's hard to beat my .....Maiya 6/7 cameras for unobtrusiveness in the noise dept...... Â Charles - Presuming you mean Mamiya, this is a very disingenuous statement. I have two Mamiya 7 cameras and yes the shutter is aspirationally quiet, however you forget to mention that the rewind sounds like a creaky barn door opening in the dead of night. In fact the Mamiya 7 has a similar noise problem to that which others have mentioned with the M8; the rewind. Â ........................Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted April 5, 2007 Share #36 Â Posted April 5, 2007 Has anyone bothered to do the test I suggested in my first post to this thread?I did it and all you can hear from infront of the camera is a click, shutter activating, and then another click when the shutter returns to the cocked position. You don't hear the motor noise when your face is not right next to the camera. Â I will echo Skippy's comment that it's not so bad. When doing studio shoots and using a tripod, I photo the WhiBal card every time the lights are changed. When I check, I use the self timer and hold the card myself. Therefore I can hear the shutter -- and don't find it as noisy as an SLR -- BUT it's not quiet like the D2! Â Attention Solms, let's think outside the box. Let's have a silent shutter. Next build, please -- I'm saving the money now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newyorkone Posted April 5, 2007 Share #37  Posted April 5, 2007 I read that issue, and must take issue (heh) with some of their measurements, or at least with their implications. My (ex) 5D is *much* more noisy than my M8, which is in turn *much* louder than my M6. Some of the other cameras didn't sound right in comparison either. I think that their measurements are strictly technical and fail to take into account the psychology of human perception. Interestingly, I was in Camera Work today, and a girl was taking pictures with a 300D, and it was surprisingly quiet, more so than my M8.  Totally agree. The 5D is quite a bit louder than the M8 and certainly louder than the D200 which according to the magaizine is only 0.5 db softer. I know this isn't true from personal experience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted April 5, 2007 Share #38 Â Posted April 5, 2007 What is interesting in the numbers above is that the M8 shutter sound is twice as long as the competition, including SLR's (read: mirror, shutter, mirror return, wind). Â I think Mark Norton first asked for the ability to control the wind after the shutter, either by delaying the release of the shutter button, or by some other method. Â Quiet would be really nice. In addition to modifying the timing of the wind, how 'bout some damping in the body? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted April 5, 2007 Share #39 Â Posted April 5, 2007 Personally, I wish Leica had put a thumb lever on the M8 for manual shutter cocking. It would have resulted in fewer electronic parts (no need for a motor), quieter operation and more of a traditional M feel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted April 5, 2007 Share #40 Â Posted April 5, 2007 Why is the M8 so noisy? Other than the shutter there's no mirror and no film to transport. Â Because there is a motor that is cocking the shutter blades. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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