maccaco Posted January 9, 2012 Share #1 Â Posted January 9, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I am thinking of selling some lenses to purchase a Summilux-M 50 pre-ASPH. Among them, I have a Summicron-M 50 and a Canon 50/1.4 LTM, both very good and in very good condition ... Worth changing the Summilux-M or rather I cease to thinking about it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Hi maccaco, Take a look here Summicron-M 50 vr Summilux-M 50... Change?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wda Posted January 9, 2012 Share #2 Â Posted January 9, 2012 It depends how important maximum aperture and control of DOF are to you. For practical purposes, at mid apertures, the Summicron is a proven superb lens with slightly easier handling and smaller size/weight. But the modern Summilux is in a class of its own. If you can find one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaco Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share #3 Â Posted January 9, 2012 Thank you for your answer, David. Â Honestly, the difference between the Canon DOF at 1.4 and 2.0 of Cron does not mean much to me, and 1 point of light (yet still pretty) do not know whether it is sufficient argument for me to change. Â I love the Cron, and the Canon as well. What a mess! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 9, 2012 Share #4 Â Posted January 9, 2012 "If it ain't broken don't fix it." To me it looks like you have 2 wonderful lenses that work for you. My advice: Keep 'em. Good luck with your decision. Â K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaco Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share #5 Â Posted January 9, 2012 I hear a lot about the goodness of Summilux (especially ASPH) but my budget does not come to him, so I think in a pre-ASPH and I believe that change is not very worthwhile, so we need your reassurances. Thanks K-H. Â 1-0 Win (Cron / Canon) vs. Lux Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 9, 2012 Share #6  Posted January 9, 2012 David commented on the 'modern' Summilux, which is an asph lens, while you initially inquired about the Summilux pre-asph. Two different lenses.  You can always rent a lens or try one from a dealer, but if you don't have specific issues with what you have, then stick to that and enjoy taking pics.  Jeff  PS I see you posted while I was busy typing. But, yes, the lenses you have are more than capable. The only way to judge IMO is the final print, and I doubt you'll have any problems if you focus on good print techniques. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaco Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share #7 Â Posted January 9, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Now... Â 2-0 Win Cron/Canon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sellitto Posted January 10, 2012 Share #8 Â Posted January 10, 2012 What one likes can be so subjective. I have a 50mm pre-asph summilux version 2 E43 and think the world of it. The painterly swirl wide open is wonderful. It is my only 50 after selling off a modern summilux and a canon f/1.2 ltm. Â Â http://www.franksellitto.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 10, 2012 Share #9  Posted January 10, 2012 I have owned and used both the current 50mm Summicron, the 'pre-aspherical' 50mm Summilux and the current Summilux ASPH, which is now my standard 50mm lens.  In the days of film, when image quality meant Kodachrome 64 and Tri-X was FAST, I used the Summicron and the old Summilux in tandem. The IQ of the Summicron was superb, but many of my pictures were ruined by its susceptibility to strange flare phenomena. Working close to a window could flare an image all over, and under a cloudy sky, the darker subject was sometimes disfigured by a curious, large rectangular flare patch. With a SLR you will mostly notice these things in the finder, as it looks through the actual taking lens, but a RF camera will give no warning. And after waiting for your chromes for days, this was annoying in the extreme. Often you could not go back to the place or the subject, either.  So increasingly, the Summilux became my standby. It is a nice lens with foibles that you can live with and forgive, especially if you can stop down to f:8, where it is excellent across the full image field. When the current Summilux ASPH became available, I sold both the Summicron and the Summilux in order to finance the purchase, and I have never looked back. I cannot imagine a better 50mm lens. It is even more flare and reflection resistant than the old version, and worth having even if you do not need the extra speed, just beacause of that dependability. And optically – that lens has the definition, the clarity, the feeling that the subject is present in near-3D reality, that so many fuzzy-duddies seem to hate. But this old man loves it.  The old man from the Age of the 5cm Elmar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 10, 2012 Share #10  Posted January 10, 2012 What one likes can be so subjective. I have a 50mm pre-asph summilux version 2 E43 and think the world of it. The painterly swirl wide open is wonderful. It is my only 50 after selling off a modern summilux and a canon f/1.2 ltm.   Frank Sellitto Photographic Images  "Painterly swirl ..." Some people love bad bokeh. Not I. Summilux ASPH imagery is more harmonious, especially in the OOF parts, than that of both the old Summilux and many other older lenses. In the days when I wanted "painterly" effects, I painted. Now I make photographs.  Every medium has its own esthetic, and the photographic esthetic is that of optical high fidelity. I grew up with 78rpm shellac records. I never loved the low dynamic range, the distorted treble, the noise and the scratches and those sublime moments when the needle jumped out of the groove. What struck me as wonderful about the CD recordings when they arrived was the silence when the music paused, just as with a high quality print, we delight in the deep black of the darkest shadows.  Sometimes it can be fun to pay a short visit to the past, but few of us would want to be stuck in it, kerosene lamps, outdoor loos and all.  The old man from the Age of the Crank Gramophone Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
russell Posted January 10, 2012 Share #11 Â Posted January 10, 2012 The IQ of the Summicron was superb, but many of my pictures were ruined by its susceptibility to strange flare phenomena.While Lars had a bad experience with his Summicron I haven't had any real flare problems with mine - the version from the early/mid 1990s. However I've only had the lens for less than 2 years. If flare does become a problem with my lens then I'll post with an example. I suspect there are Summicrons that were built to a different mechanical spec, some of which help reduce the flare experienced and so often repeated by users like Lars? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted January 10, 2012 Share #12 Â Posted January 10, 2012 Yes, my Summicron had the first version mount (with separate hood). I do also think that Leica have given more attention to fighting internal lens reflections since the end of the 1990's. But I am certainly not alone in my observation that the 50mm Summicron is sensitive to flare. The effect with the rectangular flare patch has in fact been described by other writers, though I cannot now give any links. Â The current ("FLE") version of the 35mm Summilux ASPH is also more resistant to flare than its predecessor from 1994. I have owned the v.1 and now I have the v.2, so this is a direct observation, not hearsay. None of these versions did however produce the obnoxious flare patches that my 50mm lens did. The improvement is a change in degree, not of kind. Â The reflective old man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deliberate1 Posted January 10, 2012 Share #13 Â Posted January 10, 2012 But the modern Summilux is in a class of its own. If you can find one! Â They can be found - with perserverence. I am in the US and just bought a new silver one from a dealer in England, to replace my Summicron M. The Summicron is a wonderful lens - as long as there is enough light. I am hoping that the extra stop with the Summilux will improve the quality of my low light images. I would caution you should you find one for sale by DigitalRev. Check the recent thread regarding this business. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkoush Posted January 10, 2012 Share #14 Â Posted January 10, 2012 With regards to the OP, I used to own the latest Summicron-M. Very sharp lens, excellent performer, though a bit without personality (if such a thing exists for lenses). Yes, flare is there, and I was surprised as this was a late lens. Â I replaced it with the latest pre-ASPH Summilux (a black paint one). Fantastic lens since day 1. I used this extensively and didn't get 1 photo with a flare issue. It has a very different drawing compared to the Summicron - much more "drama" (magical at f/4) and I like it very much (was my only lens for few years). Â I recently got an ASPH one, and as Lars points out, perfection is what describes it. But in summary the Summilux pre-ASPH is fantastic, a very capable lens, very different from the Summicron, but full of unique character. I'm a big fan of it so I'd say go for it. Â Savvas Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maccaco Posted January 10, 2012 Author Share #15  Posted January 10, 2012 Now  Currently my economy allows me to not buy a Lux-ASPH ... I asked because I could buy a pre-ASPH for 1500 euros.  I do not know if changing the Cron & Canon to gain 1 point of light worth it if the result is not obvious Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted January 11, 2012 Share #16 Â Posted January 11, 2012 Are there coating differences throughout the ages of the current post 79 Summicron ? Â Seems they are 'prone to flair' but modern reviews don't show this (Like Steve Huff's review) Â I would be very interested as I am looking for a Cron and fancied an early 90's late 80's one so I can keep a focus tab and not have the current version without Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 14, 2012 Share #17 Â Posted January 14, 2012 No experience with the Canon but i own both Summicron 50/2 v4 (with tab) and latest Summilux 50/1.4 pre-asph (with buit-in hood). In the center, the latter is slightly sharper at f/2 and roughly as sharp as the Summicron at f/2.8 and on. But the Summicron is always sharper on edges and corners. The Summilux is less prone to flare as well. But the Summicron is less bulky. If i had to choose one, i would prefer the Summilux for portrait and the Summicron for landscape but it's just me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted January 15, 2012 Share #18  Posted January 15, 2012 Now  Currently my economy allows me to not buy a Lux-ASPH ... I asked because I could buy a pre-ASPH for 1500 euros.  I do not know if changing the Cron & Canon to gain 1 point of light worth it if the result is not obvious for the same focal the only advantage of the Lux is on the "boké" rendering at full aperture, that's my experience. But you can get the same with a 90... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted January 15, 2012 Share #19 Â Posted January 15, 2012 I really like my early chrome summilux- from the first shot I took with it. For me the size difference is not that great- and having a faster lens- and more DOF- means I will (likely) be selling my superb '78 summicron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander †Posted January 15, 2012 Share #20  Posted January 15, 2012 Possibly think about a Zeiss 50mm C-Sonnar? It gives a special look, I've just bought one and am using it a lot at the moment. I also have a Summilux ASPH and a Summicron. I love the Summicron as an all round lens. Although the Zeiss is not as sharp wide open as the Summilux there is little to tell between them from f2.8 and smaller (although the Zeiss does show aberations wide open but that is part of its charm).  I'm sure you will enjoy whatever you decide to buy.  Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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