Joachim123 Posted January 6, 2012 Share #1  Posted January 6, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) After seening some of the beautiful work of Doug Herr, I am contemplating purchasing a 180mm R lens and trying my hand at wildlife photography. There are two different variations of this lens. The 180mm 2.8 and the 180mm3.4 Apo  Other than the difference of one F stop any recommendations or preferences to which would be the better lens to obtain? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Hi Joachim123, Take a look here Leica 180mm R lens. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
masjah Posted January 6, 2012 Share #2  Posted January 6, 2012 After seening some of the beautiful work of Doug Herr, I am contemplating purchasing a 180mm R lens and trying my hand at wildlife photography. There are two different variations of this lens. The 180mm 2.8 and the 180mm3.4 Apo  Other than the difference of one F stop any recommendations or preferences to which would be the better lens to obtain?  .... actually just half a stop. The 180/3.4 was one of the first Apo lenses. The 180/2.8 Apo was a later design (to combine the best of the 180/3.4 Apo and the earlier 180/2.8 non-Apo) and is reputed to be somewhat better. (I think it has a closer minimum focus distance also). I can attest to the really excellent quality of the 180/2.8; a friend has the 180/3.4 Apo and this still is a good lens.  There is also the (very big) 180/2, whch, realistically is a tripod lens. The well known Scottish dealer has a s/h one in currently for about £4k!  Be aware that the 180/2.8 Apo comes in two variants. The very last variant allows the use of the 1.4x Apo extender, as well as the 2x Apo extender. (The earlier variant did not permit mounting the 1.4x extender, as it fouls the inner lens elements.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFNewcomer Posted January 6, 2012 Share #3 Â Posted January 6, 2012 If you're thinking about a 180mm for your R, you shouldn't forget the 180/4 Elmar. Admittedly not as illustrious as the APOs, it's still a lovely little lens: compact, light, and more than capable of helping you get great pictures. The smooth, built-in lens hood is a nice plus too. You can normally find it at a nice price as well. I can certainly recommend it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 6, 2012 Share #4 Â Posted January 6, 2012 However, for wildlife, a 180 lens is the equivalent of a wideangle - the very least you need is a lens in the 300 class and preferably some means to go longer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFNewcomer Posted January 6, 2012 Share #5 Â Posted January 6, 2012 I agree. Try the 350/4.8, that's got nice pulling power, especially when partnered with an extender, preferably the Apo-Extender-R 2x. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 6, 2012 Share #6  Posted January 6, 2012 Anyway, wildlife photography is not really about lenses, it is about knowledge of the animal, its behaviour and habitat. If you can present that in a technically good and well-composed image you will have made a good wildlife photograph. Just a documentary shot is not good enough, and those are just the ones that are made 90% of the time. Most results from expensive safaris are just boring, despite many thousands of dollars of Nikon gear... (Canon is out of fashion at the moment;)).  Which is why I like this shot so much - I ignored the boring, sleeping Lions nearby - but they had all the cameras aimed at them. These Monkeys made a perfect rainy shot.. DMR, Vario-Elmar 105-280 with 1.4x Apoextender, beanbag Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/169966-leica-180mm-r-lens/?do=findComment&comment=1890121'>More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted January 6, 2012 Share #7 Â Posted January 6, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) A 180 will get you within the animals "comfort zone" unless they are pretty tame or you go to the south pole where they do not know people are enemies. Â Try to find a 280 APO , 350, or 400 6.8. Put any of these on a crop sensor digital digital body with Leitax/Fotodiox mounts or the 400 will mount to a Nikon the Camera Quest adapter IF YOU HAVE THE VISOFLEX EDITION of the lens. The R version is not so easy, surgery required. Â Buy a Leica or other shoulder brace. There long lenses require very careful technique to get the best out of them. A 180 is kindergarden stuff in comparison. Â Try Art Wolf.com to see what he does. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFNewcomer Posted January 6, 2012 Share #8 Â Posted January 6, 2012 Agree again. You can often handhold a 180mm without too much trouble, specially the Elmar I mentioned, but try doing that with something like the 350/4.8! A good tripod is essential in my opinion. Never tried a beanbag myself, but judging by that monkey shot (great photo, by the way) that will do the trick too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim123 Posted January 6, 2012 Author Share #9 Â Posted January 6, 2012 Thanks all for the comments. I saw Art's work. Incredible. I think getting these type of shots is more diffcult than I imagined. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted January 6, 2012 Share #10 Â Posted January 6, 2012 ... for wildlife, a 180 lens is the equivalent of a wideangle - the very least you need is a lens in the 300 class and preferably some means to go longer. Â A 280mm lens is the shortest I can regularly use on a full-frame camera (this is the film forum so I'll assume full-frame). I have used a 180 occasionally but I'd recommend something longer for someone who wants to try his hand at wildlife photography, unless he is exceptionally gifted at getting close to wild animals or wants to include a lot of habitat in his photos. Â ... the 350/4.8, that's got nice pulling power, especially when partnered with an extender, preferably the Apo-Extender-R 2x. Â The 350/4.8 can't be used with the 1.4x APO-Extender-R without modification. I felt like the 350 was at its best with static subjects. The focussing throw is too long to use with active creatures. Â ...A good tripod is essential in my opinion... Â I rarely use a tripod. Instead I use the old model 14188 shoulder stock that was originally supplied with the 400mm and 560mm f/6.8 Telyts combined with a monopod. It's not as stable as a tripod but it's much more mobile and it's stable enough to get you into a shutter speed range where subject motion can be the limiting factor. Â For a manual focus wildlife lens I like the 400mm f/6.8 Telyt. Use it on a camera with a good viewfinder, initially with a fast film and with practice and experience you can use slower films too. Don't be afraid of using it at full aperture. Â Answering the original question - my favorite 180mm R lens is the f/2.8 APO. Mine is an early model modified by Leica to work with the 1.4x APO-Extender-R... but for wildlife it's mostly a backup (with extenders) for when the 280 is not available. Â Anyway, wildlife photography is not really about lenses, it is about knowledge of the animal, its behaviour and habitat. Â +1000 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 6, 2012 Share #11 Â Posted January 6, 2012 Thanks all for the comments. I saw Art's work. Incredible. I think getting these type of shots is more diffcult than I imagined. It does take skill aka training, but once you get the hang of it, it is an extremely satisfying type of photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted January 6, 2012 Share #12  Posted January 6, 2012 A. Concerning the R 180s:  There are actually FIVE versions. IMHO, having used all of them at least briefly, and four of them on the Canon 5D2 a year ago when choosing one for long-term use, the APO lenses are clear standouts. Note that given the lack of auto-stop-down on a Canon body, I needed the best wide-open performance.  1. original, very large 180 f/2.8 non-APO. Series VIII/72mm filters. Optically adequate, but really heavy, and slow to focus (nearly a full 360 degrees of focus ring turn).  2. 2nd f/2.8 non-APO. 67mm filters. Has optical compromises to shrink the size - more vignetting, and gets fuzzy in the corners @ f/2.8-5.6, at least compared to the APO versions. The lens I originally thought I wanted - but it disappointed at wide apertures. Does focus faster and closer, though.  3. Elmar f/4. Very compact - but optically the weakest. Not horrible - just not as good as the others.  4. First APO version - f/3.4, 60mm filters. As good, or better, at f/3.4 as the non-APOs at f/5.6. (resolution, clarity), so my choice on the 5D, since I need never stop down. Downside - long close-focus limit of 2.5 meters/8 feet. f/3.4 has not been a hindrance, especially given the high ISO performance of the 5D2. I've shot indoor sports action with it with no problem.  I posted a sample from this lens (wide-open and from the corner!) in post #14 of this thread: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/200481-canon-body-r-lenses.html  5. APO-Elmarit f/2.8 - the one with which I have least experience, due to price and limited availability. Seems on a par with the f/3.4 version - at least.  B. Concerning wildlife lenses: I've shot wildlife effectively with a 135 on an M (and a 180 on Nikon/Leica) - but most of the time, something longer is needed. Even if you can get close - a 300/400 gets you closer. I found a nice 400 Telyt f/6.8 for $299 US - can't beat it for center sharpness, although field curvature fuzzes the corners. Fine for wildlife (and portable in the field) - not as good for landscape or other shots where one wants even sharpness out to the corners.  I use a monopod with the 400. If your subject is moving slowly enough to set up a tripod - it isn't wildLIFE.  Attached is with the 400, cropped to about 560mm equivalent. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/169966-leica-180mm-r-lens/?do=findComment&comment=1890250'>More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted January 7, 2012 Share #13 Â Posted January 7, 2012 Hello Andy, Â Nice photo. Â Best Regards, Â Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 7, 2012 Share #14 Â Posted January 7, 2012 ...4. First APO version - f/3.4, 60mm filters. As good, or better, at f/3.4 as the non-APOs at f/5.6. (resolution, clarity), so my choice on the 5D, since I need never stop down. Downside - long close-focus limit of 2.5 meters/8 feet. f/3.4 has not been a hindrance, especially given the high ISO performance of the 5D2... +1 also this lens vignettes a bit at f/3.4 (5D1) but it is a bargain on the s/h market so far and it is solid like a tank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme_clarke Posted January 7, 2012 Share #15 Â Posted January 7, 2012 I agrre with all the advice - I have a 180 f2.8 ROM that can be handheld, the 280 F4 is heavy and needs some kind support - as JAAP says, a beanbag or something to rest your elbows on at least. With the 2x extender I've recently acquired a monopod or tripod becomes essential. I've found focussing with the 280 and 2x very difficult - more shots than not of moving birds are soft! Here are three shots: the squirrel was taken through the kitchen window, resting elbows on the worktop. DMR+280. The Water Rail was with the DMR+180 and 2x extender on a tripod with the head loosened. The Moorhen with the DMR+280 +2x extender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
graeme_clarke Posted January 7, 2012 Share #16  Posted January 7, 2012 I'm not sure why, but the image files didn't attach! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/169966-leica-180mm-r-lens/?do=findComment&comment=1890988'>More sharing options...
fWord Posted January 21, 2012 Share #17  Posted January 21, 2012 The 180/4 Elmar R is the only Leica 180mm lens I've ever used. It's very light, small and compact. I got it for a bargain and used it for a while before selling it to fund something else. As always, photography is, for some of us, also a hunt for equipment as much as it is a hunt for good photos.  Currently the one Leica lens I've used for 'wildlife' is the very old and heavy Telyt 400/5 for Visoflex. It works very well with a Canon or Nikon camera with the appropriate M39 Visoflex to Canon or Nikon adapter. I got this cheap too but it came with a healthy amount of fungus. After cleaning the lens elements were pristine but the very soft coating was lost. It has very low contrast (could be helpful in high contrast situations when using digital) and does CA a fair bit but can be corrected in post-processing. Resolution and even performance across the field.  Despite its quirks and being rather difficult to use without a tripod (but I've ONLY ever used this lens without a tripod too), I'd say it's a reasonable lens for someone who is a bit more nostalgic, or perhaps for someone who's a little more eccentric (like me). On the Fuji S5 (which is really a Nikon body), it provides me the FOV of a 600mm lens. It got me a good number of keepers in a recent trip. Both these photos are uncropped. The 'reach' of this lens is indeed quite significant.  Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!   In the first photo of the elephants you may be able to see some CA (even at this size) at the elephant's tusks. If you go to 100% view in the original 12 megapixel file, some is even visible in its skin folds on its trunk, but that's being quite critical.  In the second photo, notice that it was taken in the worst possible lighting, high noon, with the glaring sun directly overhead. The low contrast of the lens plus the high dynamic range of the S5 Pro enabled me to capture a photo with very few blown highlights, and processed to increase contrast, yielded a photo that is of very good quality. The bokeh is only just acceptable in this instance, but we have to bear in mind this was a very busy background and not that far from the plane of focus.  For a 1950s lens that cost me just a couple of hundred dollars, it is a decent workhorse lens, and built like a tank too! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!   In the first photo of the elephants you may be able to see some CA (even at this size) at the elephant's tusks. If you go to 100% view in the original 12 megapixel file, some is even visible in its skin folds on its trunk, but that's being quite critical.  In the second photo, notice that it was taken in the worst possible lighting, high noon, with the glaring sun directly overhead. The low contrast of the lens plus the high dynamic range of the S5 Pro enabled me to capture a photo with very few blown highlights, and processed to increase contrast, yielded a photo that is of very good quality. The bokeh is only just acceptable in this instance, but we have to bear in mind this was a very busy background and not that far from the plane of focus.  For a 1950s lens that cost me just a couple of hundred dollars, it is a decent workhorse lens, and built like a tank too! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/169966-leica-180mm-r-lens/?do=findComment&comment=1904250'>More sharing options...
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