jbl Posted December 23, 2011 Share #1 Â Posted December 23, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, Â I recently acquired a IIIf and was able to get it to load, but when I processed the first roll of film, the images on the negative protrude into the sprocket holes on the bottom of the frame. I've searched around here and have found a lot of mentions of trouble loading, but haven't found anything mentioning this exactly. I'm assuming this is just error on my part, but I thought I'd check. Â Thanks, Â -jbl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 23, 2011 Posted December 23, 2011 Hi jbl, Take a look here image into the sprocket holes. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted December 23, 2011 Share #2 Â Posted December 23, 2011 Depends what you mean. Are you saying the image isn't on the usual part of the film i.e. There is an unexposed strip on one side? Can you post a scan of the whole neg? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbl Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share #3  Posted December 23, 2011 Yes. It's slight, but it's definitely happening.  Attaching an image.  -jbl Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/169100-image-into-the-sprocket-holes/?do=findComment&comment=1878332'>More sharing options...
adan Posted December 23, 2011 Share #4 Â Posted December 23, 2011 Could be loading error - could also just be something "off" in a 50+year-old camera. Â I notice your individual frames are sloped a bit (they intrude slightly further into the holes on the right of each frame than on the left, and the right edge of each frame is lower than the left edge of the adjacent frame - stairstepped). Which might indicate the film canister was not fully seated, and the film was running "uphill" from the cassette to the take-up spool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted December 23, 2011 Share #5 Â Posted December 23, 2011 Hello jbl, Â Welcome to the Forum. Â It could be the film take up spool is not inserted all the way into the body. Do you have a set of IIIf instructions? They can be helpful w/ this & other aspects of camera use. Your IIIf has a film guide in the baseplate to help properly align film but if the spool is not completely inserted the guide may not be enough to properly do so. Â Best Regards, Â Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted December 23, 2011 Share #6 Â Posted December 23, 2011 The modern cassette is slightly smaller and on some cameras this can result in play and in the film, as Andy says, running "uphill". If this bothers you, put a small wad of paper between the cassette and the baseplate. Â Oh, you did trim the leader didn't you? Â Regards, Â Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted December 23, 2011 Share #7 Â Posted December 23, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think it is simply a film loading error. Â I have only had a IIIF myself for about six months, and in a sense was forewarned what can happen because I had been looking at a lot of Cartier Bresson pictures in the previous months. And lo and behold if you buy the right book (or the wrong book depending on your perspective) there are quite a few images from his early work that show the very same problem. Some books show the sprocket holes, some have them expertly touched in. You can imagine it happening if he was perhaps changing films quickly. I have only changed film slowly with my IIIF because I am still all fingers and thumbs doing it, but it is important that once the film is over the sprocket teeth it is still pushed well under the top edge of the film gate or it can hang up. And if the canister or take up spool are not fully pushed into the body they can cause the film to pop back out. Â Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbl Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share #8 Â Posted December 23, 2011 Thanks for all of the help, everyone. Â Looking at the full roll of film, there does appear to be a stair-stepped effect where one frame is lower or higher than the next. It doesn't seem to be continual in one direction through the roll, so I'm wondering if it's a give thing. Â Since the image is low in the frame (i.e., the image invades the bottom part of the negative, not the top), I think this implies that the film is too far down towards the base of the camera (because the image inside the camera is upside down). Â This was a modern, plastic reloadable cartridge, so it could be that. I did trim the leader, but it was only my first attempt at that. I've got a roll of Tri-X in it in a metal, non-reloadable canister right now, so I guess we'll see if that's it. Â Thanks, Steve, for pointing out that HCB had the same problem :-). That makes me feel a bit better. Â -jbl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbl Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share #9 Â Posted December 31, 2011 I've run two more rolls through the camera and am seeing the same thing even though I'm pretty certain I'm loading correctly. Â If I set the camera to bulb, take the lens off and look straight into the camera, the sprockets on the top of the frame (corresponding to the bottom of the photo) are barely visible, so it seems like things are seated in just a bit too far. Â Is this likely to be serviceable or is this just the way these things are? The camera was overhauled by a reputable shop before I bought it from them, should it be taken in to be adjusted? Â Thanks in advance, Â -jbl Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iphoenix Posted December 31, 2011 Share #10 Â Posted December 31, 2011 I've had a similar result from a couple of my cameras (IIIF and II, I think). I put it down to modern day cassettes and try to allow for it. A CLA may, or may not, help, but personally, I'd regard it as one of the quirks of owning and enjoying an old, beautifully built, classic camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted December 31, 2011 Share #11  Posted December 31, 2011 If I set the camera to bulb, take the lens off and look straight into the camera, the sprockets on the top of the frame (corresponding to the bottom of the photo) are barely visible, so it seems like things are seated in just a bit too far.  Nope - not far enough. If the sprockets show at the TOP of the shutter opening, you need to seat the film in even further. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/169100-image-into-the-sprocket-holes/?do=findComment&comment=1884564'>More sharing options...
250swb Posted December 31, 2011 Share #12 Â Posted December 31, 2011 As I said in my reply above you need to push the film further in and this is nicely illustrated by Andy. I can't remember seeing any sprocket holes encroaching into the frame of a Barnack Leica caused by the film being pushed in too far. They are all the bottom of the print so top of the film gate on the negative. If you can see any part of the sprocket hole by looking around inside the front of the camera it will show as overlapping the negative image. Â Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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