aboodchy Posted December 21, 2011 Share #1 Posted December 21, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi folks! I've had an M9 with a 50 1.4 for over a year now and I love the standardized focal length the 50mm gives. I'm not much of a wide angle guy but I lately I've wanted to purchase one that has an extremely low aperture. Ideally I would purchase the 21 1.4 but I feel like it's too bloody expensive for what it is. I'm gravitating towards a leica 28 2.0 or go really low and get a Zeiss 15mm. I just found out that Voigtlander does 25 0.95 (!), but it's m4/3; is it possible to connect the lens to an adapter? Will it be equivalent to 50mm in the m9's sensor (or is it vice versa in m4/3?) Anyways, please guide this aperture whore to a satisfying wide angle LOL! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 21, 2011 Posted December 21, 2011 Hi aboodchy, Take a look here Wide angle low aperture help needed. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
IkarusJohn Posted December 21, 2011 Share #2 Posted December 21, 2011 Ideally I would purchase the 21 1.4 but I feel like it's too bloody expensive for what it is. I'm gravitating towards a leica 28 2.0 or go really low and get a Zeiss 15mm. I have all three of these lenses. Sx 21/1.4 - excellent lens, provided you like this field of view. In terms of distortion and resolution, the SE 21/3.4 is apparently better and smaller, but it is slower. The downsides of this lens are its size, the fact that you need an external viewfinder, and, yes, its cost. I like mine very much. Sn 28/2 - small, tack sharp and a perfect complement for the Sx 50/1. I can't think of any downsides. Zeiss Distagon 15/2.8 ZM - a very nice lens, but ... You have to really like the 15 mm field of view, it has very strong vignetting (they provide a centre ND filter to even it out a bit, but at the cost of a stop), you also need an external viewfinder, and it's not RF coupled (you have to guess the distance). Oh, and it's huge and expensive. So, this is a tricky lens. I use mine (scored secondhand) on my NEX-5n, which gives an equivalent field of view of 21ish. I hope this helps. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickp13 Posted December 21, 2011 Share #3 Posted December 21, 2011 how about the 24mm summilux? very useful in town - actually useful almost everywhere. cheers rick Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/168973-wide-angle-low-aperture-help-needed/?do=findComment&comment=1876581'>More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted December 21, 2011 Share #4 Posted December 21, 2011 Hi folks! I've had an M9 with a 50 1.4 for over a year now and I love the standardized focal length the 50mm gives. I'm not much of a wide angle guy but I lately I've wanted to purchase one that has an extremely low aperture. Ideally I would purchase the 21 1.4 but I feel like it's too bloody expensive for what it is. I'm gravitating towards a leica 28 2.0 or go really low and get a Zeiss 15mm. I just found out that Voigtlander does 25 0.95 (!), but it's m4/3; is it possible to connect the lens to an adapter? Will it be equivalent to 50mm in the m9's sensor (or is it vice versa in m4/3?) Anyways, please guide this aperture whore to a satisfying wide angle LOL! The CV 25mm 0.95 doesn't have a big enough image circle to cover an entire 35mm frame, even if an adaptor was available. If it did it would behave like any 25mm lens would on a 35mm sized sensor. You could hunt around for a CV Ultron 28mm 1.9. That will work but probably isn't wide enough if you're looking at 21's. Otherwise I believe, that when looking for wide, fast and cheap you'll only be able to have two of the three. Wide and cheap, look at the CV 21mm f4. It's very sharp but slowish. Wide and Fast it's the Leica I'm afraid. I've never used any of the wide Zeiss lenses so I can't comment either way. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpwhite Posted December 21, 2011 Share #5 Posted December 21, 2011 Like IcarusJohn, I have the same three WA lenses (as well as a 35 SX ASPH before FLE). I agree, in general, with Icarus John's comments, although I will offer even more pointed comments in the hope that they might help you understand the vast-vast-vast differences between the WA's you have asked about. The 15mm f/2.8 Zeiss is superb, but it is a very specialized lens and will not satisfy your appreciation of the glowing effect from the 50 SX selective field of crispness (i.e., everything the Zeiss sees comes out crispy). The 21 SX is a magnificent lens, although its FOV is mighty big on a 24 x 36 format (M9). I shoot at f/1.7 or 2.0, and the results are truly wonderful. The color fidelity is very good, but does not match your 50 SX... actually, there doesn't seem to be another Leica M lens that matches the 50 SX in this regard. I have not used the 24 SX (because I purchased my 21 SX in the days of the M8), but many members of the forum love everything about the look of their images taken with the 24 SX on an M9. OK, here is my recommendation! Go out and buy a 28 f/2.0 ASPH. The color fidelity is excellent, very little distortion (only visible on spherical shapes at the extremes of the image), as sharp as any Leica M lens for sure, and completely useful at f/2.8. Close focus is also pretty darn good, which sounds like the sort of perspective you will like in order to achieve a highly selective depth of focus with wide perspective. All of that said, if you have never used a 35 SX ASPH, stopped down to f/2.0, I would try that first. You may find the jump to 28mm FOV from a 50mm to be larger than you expect. And probably the best all around set is 50 ASPH, 35 ASPH and 24 ASPH. Have fun! Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboodchy Posted December 21, 2011 Author Share #6 Posted December 21, 2011 Thank you guys for your detailed answers! I will be sure to try a 28 2.0 and a 21/24 1.4 side by side. Now that I think of it, a 24mm does sound like an ideal wide angle lens plus giving a low aperture. I will report back to what lens I do actually buy! Thanks a mill! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobu Posted December 21, 2011 Share #7 Posted December 21, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Since at least two people here own the Zeiss 15mm ZM, I would like to ask some questions regarding this lens. I'm really interested in this lens as wider addition to my Leica 18mm SE, mostly for landscape work. I know that it is big, heavy, expensive and not rangefinder coupled. What I would really like to know is, how sharp are the corners on the M9? According to Lloyd you have to stop down to f/11 to get sharp edges and even then the extreme corners are still soft at some distances. Can you confirm this? At which distances and f-stops do you get really sharp edges and corners? Do you have any 100% corner crops, that you could post here? Another thing I would like to know: Do you use/need corner fix or is there a lens profile that works really well with this lens? Boris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted December 21, 2011 Share #8 Posted December 21, 2011 [... I cannot help with snipped questions ...] I just found out that Voigtlander does 25 0.95 (!), but it's m4/3; is it possible to connect the lens to an adapter? Will it be equivalent to 50mm in the m9's sensor (or is it vice versa in m4/3?) Anyways, please guide this aperture whore to a satisfying wide angle LOL! The 25mm F/.95 Voigtlander has a 4/3 mount. It is a normal lens on 4/3. It will not work on an M9, regardless of adapters. By the way, is an amazing lens, even wide-open. Actual pixels, minimum focusing distance @f/.95 Full frame reduced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 21, 2011 Share #9 Posted December 21, 2011 Since at least two people here own the Zeiss 15mm ZM, I would like to ask some questions regarding this lens. I'm really interested in this lens as wider addition to my Leica 18mm SE, mostly for landscape work. I know that it is big, heavy, expensive and not rangefinder coupled. What I would really like to know is, how sharp are the corners on the M9? According to Lloyd you have to stop down to f/11 to get sharp edges and even then the extreme corners are still soft at some distances. Can you confirm this? At which distances and f-stops do you get really sharp edges and corners? Do you have any 100% corner crops, that you could post here? Another thing I would like to know: Do you use/need corner fix or is there a lens profile that works really well with this lens? Boris Hi Boris, Christmas time, so not really the best time for testing lenses. I will see what I can do over the next few weeks. I would struggle with using an ultra-wide for landscape - you'd run the risk of getting a straight line. Erwin Puts had this to say about the Distagon 15 ZM: Distagon-T 2.8/15 ZMWith this lens Zeiss throws in all technology they have: with eleven elements in nine groups, an aspherical surface, a floating element construction and exotic glasses, this lens is an example of modern optical design. There is some decentring, but on axis the performance is outstandingly good, when we account fro the very wide angle that has to be covered. You cannot compare the absolute quality of this lens with a 21mm lens, so you have to use other 15mm lenses to get the proper reference. The Leica-R 2.8/15mm was used as comparison and both lenses proved to be equal. This implies that from now on the Leica M user can own and use a 15mm lens of excellent performance and bring into Leica M photography the perspective and composition possibilities of an extreme wide-angle lens. The Voigtlander 4.5/15mm lens was also brought in as a comparison and proved to be quite good. The gain of one and a half stop and a better image quality brings in a much bigger lens, the size of the Noctilux. If you only need a 15mm occasionally, the Voigtlander is the one to buy, but if you are serious about very wide-angle photography, the 2.8/15mm ZM is the only serious choice for an M user. If I can get something of use, I will post it here. I don't use cornerfix, but on the M9 (because it is full frame) I will take some images with and without the ND filter. It is a tricky beast, because you have to estimate the distance on the M9, and stopping down with an ND filter (to reduce vignetting) makes the f/2.8 wide open a bit of an illusion. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 21, 2011 Share #10 Posted December 21, 2011 how about the 24mm summilux? very useful in town - actually useful almost everywhere. cheers rick Hi Rick, I like this image a lot, but it does seem a bit too contrasty and a bit hard. What did you do in post? It almost looks like a B&W image, on very contrasty paper, but with a little colour thrown in. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobu Posted December 21, 2011 Share #11 Posted December 21, 2011 Hi Boris, Christmas time, so not really the best time for testing lenses. I will see what I can do over the next few weeks. I would struggle with using an ultra-wide for landscape - you'd run the risk of getting a straight line. Erwin Puts had this to say about the Distagon 15 ZM: If I can get something of use, I will post it here. I don't use cornerfix, but on the M9 (because it is full frame) I will take some images with and without the ND filter. It is a tricky beast, because you have to estimate the distance on the M9, and stopping down with an ND filter (to reduce vignetting) makes the f/2.8 wide open a bit of an illusion. Cheers John Thanks John! I have some experience with a 14mm lens on FF for landscapes (I used a Nikon 2.8/14-24mm lens on my Canon 5DII in the past). And the ND filter is also no problem for me, since I will use this lens only stopped down from a tripod. If you don't use corner fix, which lens profile setting do you use on the M9? Cheers Boris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickp13 Posted December 21, 2011 Share #12 Posted December 21, 2011 Hi Rick, I like this image a lot, but it does seem a bit too contrasty and a bit hard. What did you do in post? It almost looks like a B&W image, on very contrasty paper, but with a little colour thrown in. Cheers John hi john thank you for commenting. i posted it mostly because of the low angle, not the processing. i wanted to show the full 24mm perspective in a downtown environment to the original poster. it is both contrasty and hard, as you say, but i think that that look somehow suits the guy with the bike, who really took possession of his space on the sidewalk. the processing was a little bit of nik's bleach bypass filter, followed by slight desaturation. others from the same afternoon are quite natural. greetings from hamburg rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted December 22, 2011 Share #13 Posted December 22, 2011 Thinking outside the box, another inexpensive possibility if you're restricting yourself to landscapes would be to take, say, 4 shots with your 50 Summilux to cover the wide angle perspective and use stitching software. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpwhite Posted December 22, 2011 Share #14 Posted December 22, 2011 I sold my 15 ZM a couple of months after I purchased my M9, as I was satisfied with the FOV of the 21 SX on a FF file. Indeed, the close-focus correction from the 21 SX is easier to use and offers better performance than fiddling with the 15 ZM in the 1.5 to 2m range. Thus, I cannot offer you an example of deep focus shot with the 15 ZM and an M9. I did test the 18 SE, courtesy of David Farkas' rental program, on my M9. It is an excellent lens and a bit sharper and apparently higher res than my 21 SX. Nevertheless, I would rate the 15 ZM as having superior resolution, contrast and rectilinear correction across the full frame in comparison to either the 18 SE or the 21 SX. I did shoot my 15 ZM at f/11, but that was on my RD-1, which is hardly the image circle you are asking about. On the M9 (FF), distortion of spherical shapes, such as pumpkins, headlights or human heads, is very noticeable at the outer 20% or so of the 15 ZM image circle. Frankly speaking, I am a bit confused by your question about the 15 ZM edge sharpness in light of your earlier question about WA shooting at large apertures. Perhaps working with a 28 SM will give you some important experience, as it performs well at all apertures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobu Posted December 22, 2011 Share #15 Posted December 22, 2011 Frankly speaking, I am a bit confused by your question about the 15 ZM edge sharpness in light of your earlier question about WA shooting at large apertures. Perhaps working with a 28 SM will give you some important experience, as it performs well at all apertures. Sorry for the confusion. I'm not the OP and I'm not interested in shooting at wider apertures. I'm just looking for the best wide angle lens with a focal length wider than 18mm. As far as I know there exists only 3: ZM15, VC12 and VC15. From the examples I've seen both Voigtländers are clearly not as good as my Leica 18SEM (contrast, edge sharpness and colors). Therefore my question for the 15ZM, which I would probably only use from a tripod at f/8 or f/11, but sometimes at close distances (like at rock in the foreground and some beautiful landscape in the background). Boris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
budrichard Posted December 22, 2011 Share #16 Posted December 22, 2011 Hi folks! I've had an M9 with a 50 1.4 for over a year now and I love the standardized focal length the 50mm gives. I'm not much of a wide angle guy but I lately I've wanted to purchase one that has an extremely low aperture. Ideally I would purchase the 21 1.4 but I feel like it's too bloody expensive for what it is. I'm gravitating towards a leica 28 2.0 or go really low and get a Zeiss 15mm. I just found out that Voigtlander does 25 0.95 (!), but it's m4/3; is it possible to connect the lens to an adapter? Will it be equivalent to 50mm in the m9's sensor (or is it vice versa in m4/3?) Anyways, please guide this aperture whore to a satisfying wide angle LOL! I would not go any wider than 35mm for my first WA. Coming from a 50mm where you need not concern yourself with external finders and keeping the plane of the camera sensor parallel to the plane of your scene, you will find a vast difference in how you go about composing. The 35mm of which the 35 Lux ASPH is the best, will offer WA scenes and a large aperture. If you are going wider than that, there is not any advantage of a 24 over a 21mm and you might as well have the extra few degrees. Anything wider than 21mm is really for static use as composition is very difficult with a rangefinder rather than an SLR. I use a 21mm f2.8 Leica ASPH and found that it took a lot of shooting and analysis on my part to find the best finder and methods for shooting. I vastly prefer the 35mm lens to the 21mm but there are sometimes I require the 21mm.-Dick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted December 22, 2011 Share #17 Posted December 22, 2011 Sorry for the confusion. I'm not the OP and I'm not interested in shooting at wider apertures. I'm just looking for the best wide angle lens with a focal length wider than 18mm. As far as I know there exists only 3: ZM15, VC12 and VC15.From the examples I've seen both Voigtländers are clearly not as good as my Leica 18SEM (contrast, edge sharpness and colors). Therefore my question for the 15ZM, which I would probably only use from a tripod at f/8 or f/11, but sometimes at close distances (like at rock in the foreground and some beautiful landscape in the background). Boris Have you read Sean Reid's reviews on wide angles and/or the LL website? I own a ZM18 and the SEM18. Looked to buy the ZM15, but could not justify $4600. Now the $850 for the Voigt 12 could work for you. How about stitching 18mm images? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobu Posted December 22, 2011 Share #18 Posted December 22, 2011 Have you read Sean Reid's reviews on wide angles and/or the LL website? I own a ZM18 and the SEM18. Looked to buy the ZM15, but could not justify $4600. Now the $850 for the Voigt 12 could work for you. How about stitching 18mm images? Yes, I've read the review. The results I've seen so far from the VC12 were not really convincing, but maybe I should just try it, before spending 3500€ for the Zeiss lens. Boris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted December 22, 2011 Share #19 Posted December 22, 2011 Yes, I've read the review. The results I've seen so far from the VC12 were not really convincing, but maybe I should just try it, before spending 3500€ for the Zeiss lens. Boris Not a bad idea. Remember the difference between the 15 and the 12 is significant in real terms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted December 22, 2011 Share #20 Posted December 22, 2011 Yes, I've read the review. The results I've seen so far from the VC12 were not really convincing, but maybe I should just try it, before spending 3500€ for the Zeiss lens. Boris The Luminous Landscape article addresses your lenses directly, but on Sony cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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