M9 and M9-P, the End of an Era

[StephenPatterson]

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Think for a moment on the M system, from the M3 first introduced in 1954 to the present day M9 and M9-P. In spite of the fact there have been bumps in the road this has been a remarkable dynasty. Even when Leica has stumbled ("Hey, let's add a really huge photocell, make the body the size of a Cadillac and call it the M5") they have recovered in grand fashion. And while the M8 was perhaps not quite ready for prime time, the M9 has been a jewel in the crown. One could argue that, except for the use of a digital sensor instead of film, the M8 and M9 have stayed true to their mechanical, rangefinder heritage.

 

And so, with the coming of the M10, with all it's rumored video, electronic viewfinder and other computer...stuff, well, I think this may be the end of an era.

 

I believe the last air cooled 911 represented the end of an era for Porsche. Today they make fine sports cars, with traction control, paddle shift, etc., but one could also argue that the soul, the Porsche experience, is very different, if not lost.

 

And so I wonder, is a similar ending just around the corner for Leica? Is my M9-P the last of a generation?

 

Stephen

[darylgo]

There is smoke about the future of Leica M but it doesn't appear to be coming from Leica. With the tremendous success of the M9 my take is that Leica will not move quickly away from it's mostly mechanical/analog-body M system. If they do I would look to a similar situation such as Nikon F3 availability for 20+ years.

[Jeff S]

Is my M9-P the last of a generation?

 

Of course not. Expect an M9.2 and/or M9-P.2, with minimal changes, that will cause buyer frenzy despite the significant additional cost.

 

Start the games with 2m frame lines.

 

Jeff

[StephenPatterson]

If they do I would look to a similar situation such as Nikon F3 availability for 20+ years.

 

So, you think Leica will continue to produce the M9 and/or M9-P after introducing an M10? I suppose there is a precedent, as Leica continued to produce the M4 after introducing the M5, but that trend has not been seen since the 1970s.

[swamiji]

I don't expect the M10 to be much of a departure, Most likely a new sensor, Maybe back lit frame lines. Better ISO, certainly. Same basic design. Leica always takes small steps. None of the rumored features, unless they can be made to fit in the same package. They do not want another M5, just when things are looking good. All of the rumored features, will be in a new product line, using the M mount.

[Alnitak]

I don't expect the M10 to be much of a departure, Most likely a new sensor, Maybe back lit frame lines. Better ISO, certainly. Same basic design. Leica always takes small steps. None of the rumored features, unless they can be made to fit in the same package. They do not want another M5, just when things are looking good. All of the rumored features, will be in a new product line, using the M mount.

 

I suspect this is correct--the M10 will have a new CMOS sensor and some other minor improvements--the backlit frame lines of the M9 Titan is a most likely addition--and maybe basic video--but any more significant departures will come in another body, likely one that will use the M-Mount.

 

Jeff

[swamiji]

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I suspect this is correct--the M10 will have a new CMOS sensor and some other minor improvements--the backlit frame lines of the M9 Titan is a most likely addition--and maybe basic video--but any more significant departures will come in another body, likely one that will use the M-Mount.

 

Jeff

 

Most likely not video, until Leica get some experience with it. Maybe a M11, the rumored EVIL will provide that. The M series is currently there flagship, they won't add a feature until it's tested else where. Leica has never produced any camera with Video. The EVIL camera is supposed to be build in-house.

[OwinThomas]

Is my M9-P the last of a generation?

 

Let's make that call when the facts are known.

 

Personally, I hope the next iteration of the M is a further progression of improvements and not added gimmicks and features, just because they can.

 

What I would like, apart from an increase in capacity of production WITHOUT a loss in quality, would be an increase in the size of the write buffer, or at least the speed and stability of writing to the SD card. Also the ability to use other card manufacturers without the fear of losing the images or locking out of the camera.

 

I hope the M10, if that's what it is to be called, is a greater camera than the M9/M9-P and not an M9 with bells and whistles on it.

[Studio58]

I hope the M10, if that's what it is to be called, is a greater camera than the M9/M9-P and not an M9 with bells and whistles on it.

 

Yes and I believe that is the way it will go. If there is to be a Leica that represents a departure from the what is embodied in the current M series, then I believe it will be in a new model designed around those features. The hypothetical camera you speak of is so out of character with the intrinsic nature of the M series that essentially it would be an impostor if it were to have M inscribed upon it.

No... the new camera will be the Leica V1.

[jaapv]

M10-all Internet smoke. Leica is playing its cards close to its chest. One thing they will not do: antagonize their customer base by building an metoo camera with unneccesary nonsense in it. I think they will implement more newfangled stuff in the CM or whatever they are going to call their intermediate than in the hypothetical M10

[mole73]

Perhaps with the introduction of the M10 (with many added features) they will go a "two way strategy" and let the M9 stay in production. With the analogue bodies it is the same, the M7 for the innovation and the MP for the tradition.

 

Robert

[KM-25]

Better ISO, certainly.

 

What is meant by this, I see it more and more? Are you saying that setting the ISO on the M9 is not good enough in the current method?

[mole73]

One more thought of the upcoming M10:

 

the dimensions of the body have to be changed when they want to intruduce a bigger and better screen on the back. Elsewhere I read that Stefan Daniel said, the resolution of the current screen cannot be improved because of the dimensions of the body. A better screen would rise the dimensions of it and the body.

 

So I think the M10 has to be bigger in some ways.

[lct]

The M10 will be more Leica like hopefully with less motor & digital noise, more speedness, less color shifts and more sharpness a la M8. I don't see why a CMOS sensor or a clip-on EVF would obstruct such welcome evolution.

[NZDavid]

Steve, I believe you are right. The M9 and M9-P, while incorporating a digital sensor and LCD, may well be the last Leica digital rangefinder cameras where traditional components,especially the range/viewfinder, are still regarded as highly important. Modern digital cameras are already specialized computers that need to be programmed and regularly upgraded. Leica product manager Stefan Daniel has signaled EVFs will play an increasing role in the future. Exclusive: Leica Interview – October 2011 • MegaPixel

 

The future Leica M may well be like granddad's axe -- same name but new blade and handle so really all new.

 

Whatever form future Leica products take, I am hoping that Leica values, not just features, will be decisive: simplicity and concentration on the essentials, technical excellence, robustness and longevity.

 

I do really hope they keep the rounded body shape, traditional shutter dial and aperture ring and don't add too much clutter and extra features.

 

Edit: The Porsche 911 still looks like a smooth evolution of the original: in fact, sleeker and smoother than previous models with giant spoilers and flared wheel arches, and it still has the flat- six, yes, water-cooled now but with more power. I'd love one -- but classic cars also appeal.

[01af]

Strange how people start to take speculations for facts when there are only enough speculations.

 

There is no "the upcoming M10".

[jaapv]

Perhaps with the introduction of the M10 (with many added features) they will go a "two way strategy" and let the M9 stay in production. With the analogue bodies it is the same, the M7 for the innovation and the MP for the tradition.

 

Robert

Who told you that? The M9P made a start with simplification, at least on the design side. Who is to tell that the M10 will not make that a trend and extend the simplification into the feature-set? For instance AE and Auto-ISO run contrary to the philosophy behind the camera. Introducing a feature-laden APS sensored M mount camera would free Leica to get closer to their roots with the -as yet non-disclosed- M10.

[swamiji]

What is meant by this, I see it more and more? Are you saying that setting the ISO on the M9 is not good enough in the current method?

 

Good enough is relative. I don't have a problem with the current range, but it would be nice, if it had less noise at higher ISO. I know there are ways to handle in post, but I would rather it be handled in camera. It has been conceded in interviews, that Leica feels it could do better.

[mole73]

Who told you that? The M9P made a start with simplification, at least on the design side. Who is to tell that the M10 will not make that a trend and extend the simplification into the feature-set? For instance AE and Auto-ISO run contrary to the philosophy behind the camera. Introducing a feature-laden APS sensored M mount camera would free Leica to get closer to their roots with the -as yet non-disclosed- M10.

 

Jaap,

 

that was my own thought. The mentioned interview with Stefan Daniel a few weeks ago could be a hint for what we have to expect in an M10.

 

Robert

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[swamiji]

 

The mentioned interview with Stefan Daniel a few weeks ago could be a hint for what we have to expect in an M10.

 

Robert

 

Or possibly the EVIL yet to come.