NZDavid Posted December 1, 2011 Share #1 Posted December 1, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I believe the best digital camera for M lenses is the M9, but I'd like to find out what other digital bodies also use M lenses -- not necessarily for myself but to recommend to others. I am aware of several models but there are so many new ones I'm confused! I know about Panasonic G, Olympus Pens, Ricohs, and Sonys. Are there others I have missed? There are so many sub models the choice becomes even more baffling. I would be very grateful if somebody with more knowledge than I could help. Please list pros and cons briefly; I would prefer simply an informative database rather than an in-depth discussion of each camera's merits (there is plenty of that here already). Something like this -- I'll kick off with the M9: Manufacturer: Leica Model: M9 Price (approx.): $7,000 Adapter required: No Lens factor: 1x Other lenses available: Zeiss, CV, older lenses from various manufacturers. Pros: superb quality, full frame sensor, manual rangefinder focusing, easy-to-use manual controls. Cons: small LCD, limited applications (common to all rangefinders), pricey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Hi NZDavid, Take a look here What other digital bodies take M lenses?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
farnz Posted December 2, 2011 Share #2 Posted December 2, 2011 Manufacturer: Epson Model: RD-1, RD-1S, RD-1x, RD-1G Price (approx.):£1,000 - £1,500 dependent on condition Adapter required: No Lens factor: 1.53x Sensor: 24 x 16 mm, 6.1 MPx Other lenses available: Zeiss, CV, 39mm Leica Thread Mount, Kobalux, Avenon, Pasoptik, Hexanon-M, Hexanon-L, Nikon-S, Canon LTM, Angenieux, Wolensack, Reid, Bell & Howell. Pros: Unique analogue 'fuel-guage' meter for battery, ISO, remaining shots; innovative, reversible LCD to make it appear to be a film camera; reasonable optical rangefinder/viewfinder; easy-to-use manual controls. Cons: no offset sensor elements so wide angle lenses vignette; small, low pixel count sensor; poor customer service; small LCD, effectively limited to use with focal lengths between 12 and 135 mm (common to all rangefinders). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted December 2, 2011 Share #3 Posted December 2, 2011 Manufacturer: Leica Model: M8, M8u, M8.2 Price (approx.):£1,300 - £2,000 dependent on model and condition Adapter required: No Lens factor: 1.3x Sensor: 27 x 18 mm, 10.3 MPx Other lenses available: Zeiss, CV, 39mm Leica Thread Mount, Kobalux, Avenon, Pasoptik, Hexanon-M, Hexanon-L, Nikon-S, Canon LTM, Angenieux, Wolensack, Reid, Bell & Howell. Pros: Superb rangefinder viewfinder; easy-to-use manual controls; allows hand-held infrared photography. Cons: effectively limited to use with focal lengths between 12 and 135 mm (common to all rangefinders), requires the use of infrared cut filters to compensate follow strength IR filter over sensor; limited ISO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted December 2, 2011 Share #4 Posted December 2, 2011 Manufacturer: Sony Model: Nex 3, Nex C3, Nex 5, Nex 5n, Nex 7 Price (approx.):£400 - £1,000 dependent on model and condition Adapter required: Definitely Lens factor: 1.5x Sensor: APS-C Other lenses available: Basically anything else that has the adapter made out for. Pros: Live view, small size, focus peaking, high ISO capability, tiltable screen (on some models), electronic view finder (nex 7), video mode (for those who likes them), price. Cons: The crop sensor size and the less maximum usage of the Leica lens due to non-optimized microsensors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 2, 2011 Share #5 Posted December 2, 2011 Manufacturer: Epson...Pros: Unique analogue 'fuel-guage' meter for battery, ISO, remaining shots; innovative, reversible LCD to make it appear to be a film camera; reasonable optical rangefinder/viewfinder; easy-to-use manual controls. 1:1 viewfinder, no shutter lag, no motor noise, good ergonomics, manual ISO setting, easy to adjust (some) RF misalignments by DIY. Manufacturer: Epson...Cons: no offset sensor elements so wide angle lenses vignette; small, low pixel count sensor; poor customer service; small LCD, effectively limited to use with focal lengths between 12 and 135 mm (common to all rangefinders). Small raw buffer, shutter noise louder than film M's. I believe the R-D1 has offset microlenses but they are not as efficient as Leica's by far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Holy Moly Posted December 2, 2011 Share #6 Posted December 2, 2011 Manufacturer: Ricoh Model: GXR with M mount - module Price (approx.): € 1.100 for body, M mount and EVF Adapter required: No Lens factor: 1.5x Sensor: APS-C 12 mpix Leica specification M bajonnett, NO AA filter, shifted micro lenses, internal corrections for vignetting, colorshift and distortion, done by users Pros: Good EVF, tiltable, 2 function knobs, data storage of manual lens-properties in body AND on the SD cart, best UI from all digicams so far, very good high ISO (a bit weeker compare to Sony) NO colorshift with ultra wides like VC 12+15mm With an A12 module change to AF cam with 28mm or 50mm macro, both sealed. M mount plus adapters accept all lenses with MF and aperture ring. Cons: due to flood in Thailand short delivery of M mount, doesn't look sexy, outside Japan image isn't so high as mass market sellers. The GXR is a true modular cam as Mamiya, Hassy or Phase One but for the 35mm market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted December 2, 2011 Share #7 Posted December 2, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Re: Ricoh. Not many cons here. Questions: Is manual focusing more or less easy as with the Sonys? How is the EVF compared to Sony's again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Holy Moly Posted December 2, 2011 Share #8 Posted December 2, 2011 Re: Ricoh. Not many cons here. Questions: Is manual focusing more or less easy as with the Sonys? How is the EVF compared to Sony's again? Both cams use peaking, but in case of the Sony the pronounced edges can be colored. Some people like it some don't...... The EVF has the same resolution as the backscreen. It's about 1 mio. compare to Sony's 1.44 mio. The biggest drawbacks from the Sony is the non-taylormade sensor and the absence of user-created camera profiles as "My1, 2, 3 " with the Ricoh. Keep in mind that the GXR has a totally different approach. It's for enthusiasts not only by technical properties, but more by it's user interface. The Ricoh is the only non-DSLR which can store user profiles on each SD card to remember the settings parallel to the setting in-cam. Only D3,D3S and SX from Nikon (Canon I don't know) are able to store these settings. For example: b&w shooter can assign a FN to convert the screen to b&w in order to check the scene without colour. Just one click. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted December 2, 2011 Share #9 Posted December 2, 2011 Additional for Ricoh: Pros: small and lightweight Cons: no optical viewfinder Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted December 2, 2011 Share #10 Posted December 2, 2011 Cons: no optical viewfinder, no offset sensor elements so wide angle lenses vignette I can only say that I have not seen any vignetting with my 15mm CV. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Holy Moly Posted December 2, 2011 Share #11 Posted December 2, 2011 Additional for Ricoh:Pros: small and lightweight Cons: no optical viewfinder, no offset sensor elements so wide angle lenses vignette Pete. definitly wrong: the sensor has shifted micro lenses, therefore the ultrawides from Voigtlander have no shift at all. Vignetting from lenses is a phenomenon on film too..... The vignetting is mostly eliminated by the crop of 1.5 and can be treated if necessary in-camera when it occurs by adjustments as written above. The German magazine "Photography" tested the Oly E-P3 + the GXR M against the M9-P. Result: "The Ricoh is pretty close to the M9-P and better in high ISO settings*. Due to the weak borders the E-P3 should be used with only the lowest ISO setting - beside the 2.0 crop." This is another disadvantage.... Here's a guy who shoots panoramics with the 12mm VC. Can you imagine what he has to do when he stitches several pics with colorshifted borders? Early morn in Clarke Quay (Re-edited) | Flickr - Photo Sharing! *They didn't test with a VC15 or a Leica super wide angle in order to pass by the red edges with the M9..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted December 2, 2011 Share #12 Posted December 2, 2011 Thanks, Bill and Holy Moly. I don't have a GXR and I was wrong so I have removed the reference accordingly. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 2, 2011 Share #13 Posted December 2, 2011 Manufacturer: EpsonModel: RD-1, RD-1S, RD-1x, RD-1G Price (approx.):£1,000 - £1,500 dependent on condition Adapter required: No Lens factor: 1.53x Sensor: 24 x 16 mm, 6.1 MPx Other lenses available: Zeiss, CV, 39mm Leica Thread Mount, Kobalux, Avenon, Pasoptik, Hexanon-M, Hexanon-L, Nikon-S, Canon LTM, Angenieux, Wolensack, Reid, Bell & Howell. Pros: Unique analogue 'fuel-guage' meter for battery, ISO, remaining shots; innovative, reversible LCD to make it appear to be a film camera; reasonable optical rangefinder/viewfinder; easy-to-use manual controls. Cons: no offset sensor elements so wide angle lenses vignette; small, low pixel count sensor; poor customer service; small LCD, effectively limited to use with focal lengths between 12 and 135 mm (common to all rangefinders). You forgot lenses from "Oude Delft" and the Russian ones . Pasoptik IS Avenon and Kobalux. You are right about the shifted microlenses; that ia an unique Kodak/Leica patent. The RD1 uses an unmodified Nikon D70 sensor. It has acceptble vignetting through the smaller sensor and aggressive software correction. Nevertheless it is a problem. Ricoh uses a shifted mocrolens system, whether through licensing or patent- avoiding design I do not know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Holy Moly Posted December 2, 2011 Share #14 Posted December 2, 2011 Thanks, Bill and Holy Moly. I don't have a GXR and I was wrong so I have removed the reference accordingly. Pete. No worries, Pete. Even when you look onto the sensor it's difficult to see the microlenses with naked eyes..... Here some words from the GXR page: "The large 23.6 × 15.7 mm CMOS sensor offers beautiful bokeh as well as rich tone gradations. Taking into account the use of lenses such as the symmetrical wide-angle lenses of the film era, this sensor optimizes on-chip micro-lens performance and suppresses peripheral light falloff and color balance changes. There are approximately 12.30 million effective pixels. Based on the design concept of making the best use of the special characteristics of film-era lens, GR MOUNT A12 makes it possible to draw out all of the sharp imaging power of both classic lenses and the CMOS sensor." It would be very interesting whether the Sony sensor in the mount is exactly the same as in the new NEX5n even he has less pixels. The 5n has much better output with M lenses compare to the older NEX 5 or 3. The last secrets we don't get from our friends in Japan...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeleny Posted December 2, 2011 Share #15 Posted December 2, 2011 EPIC + Leica-M + Pier 59 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted December 2, 2011 Share #16 Posted December 2, 2011 You forgot lenses from "Oude Delft" ... Thanks, Jaap, I'm not familiar with them. Pasoptik IS Avenon and Kobalux. ... We know that but I included them in case others didn't. I suppose for completeness there's Bower as well. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted December 2, 2011 Author Share #17 Posted December 2, 2011 Thanks for replies so far, does anybody have info on Panasonic and Olympus? How do they compare? Hot and sunny here -- out for a while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 3, 2011 Share #18 Posted December 3, 2011 Thanks, Jaap, I'm not familiar with them. Pete. Schouten Select Cameras & Accessories! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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