Robert Seeney Posted November 24, 2011 Share #1  Posted November 24, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello  I have done a search and couldn't find a thread so thought I would ask the forum.  I have an M9 and 35/50 which I love. I have been using these for weddings and social occasions and now I am feeling the need for a slightly longer length lens. I used to shoot the 85 and 135 canons so am familiar with the lengths for portraits which will be the intended use - both studio and candid/wedding (as well as some reach if I am separated during the ceremony!)  I am confused about the difference between the 90mm tele elmar and the 90mm elmarit M - shots from both on flickr et al seem to be similar as might be expected but the tele elmar is about half the price. Is there any real difference in quality between the 2 when shooting at 2.8/4? Is there some issue lurking with the tele that should make me think twice or is the price difference purely availability and market forces?  I will also pick up the 135mm - presume I will need a magnifier for this length?  Many thanks in advance and my apologies if it has been discussed before and I am being blind!  Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 24, 2011 Posted November 24, 2011 Hi Robert Seeney, Take a look here Lens advice needed. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted November 24, 2011 Share #2 Â Posted November 24, 2011 They are older (Tele-Elmarit) and newer (Elmarit-M). The Elmarit-M is an excellent lens with near-apo Summicron quality, but there is nothing wrong with the Tele-Elmar. Â Whether you need a magnifier for 135 is a personal choice, the forum is split on this about 50-50, but it is essential that you adapt the viewfinder to your eye's specific strength by a diopter if needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 24, 2011 Share #3 Â Posted November 24, 2011 Perhaps a diopter as Jaap says; the important thing is to correct your vision as best as possible beforehand, even if this means glasses, which I use to correct astigmatism. Â I happen to use an M8.2, but if owned an M9, I might be tempted to crop 90mm files down to equivalent 135 FOV, given the larger files. But, that's personal taste, as I prefer shorter focal lengths, and bigger frame lines, with the M, without using a magnifier. YMMV. Â Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted November 24, 2011 Share #4 Â Posted November 24, 2011 Welcome to the Forum, Rob! Â Slight confusion in your question. There was a 90mm Tele-Elmarit (not Tele-Elmar) which is quite good for portraits. The later, but discontinued Elmarit-M is a superior lens, slightly bigger and heavier. The nearest equivalent to the Elmarit-M is the Summarit which is a current lens of excellent performance. Â I had a Tele-Elmarit but traded it for a mint used Elmarit-M because I needed crisper definition. (You can always soften the result in post-processing.) Â I also have an old 135mm Elmar, circa 1965) in mint condition for which I use the Leica 1.4x viewfinder attachment. I think it is essential for accurate focusing. While the resolution is rather less good than the also discontinued 135mm Tele-Elmar, I find I can perk up its performance in post-processing sufficient for my needs. The current 135mm Apo-Telyt lens is far superior, but more than twelve times the price! My usage didn't justify buying new; your needs might be different. Hope this helps. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Cambern Posted November 24, 2011 Share #5 Â Posted November 24, 2011 While he is a controversial figure and you have to take some of his reviews with a grain of salt, he does provide a good description of the various lenses and their vintages. Â LEICA Lenses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted November 24, 2011 Share #6 Â Posted November 24, 2011 I am very happy with the tele-elmarit I own. It is an excellent portrait lens and is more compact than the other 90mm lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Posted November 25, 2011 Share #7 Â Posted November 25, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I highly recommend the Voightlander 75mm, f1.8 Heliar Classic. Just a great lens!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 25, 2011 Share #8 Â Posted November 25, 2011 The "thin" Tele-Elmarit 90/2.8 (# 11800) is one the smallest 90 for Leica M ever made. It is a bit soft at f/2.8, mainly in the corners, but it is plenty sharp at f/4 and on. Its only serious flaw is flare. Better not shooting against the sun or other light sources with it. The Elmarit 90/2.8 (# 11807, 11808, 11899) addresses this issue, is sharper at f/2.8 but is significantly bulkier. I have no experience with the latter though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted November 25, 2011 Share #9  Posted November 25, 2011 If you can find one of these rare, black Canon 85 ƒ1.8 LTM lenses, made just before Canon shut down it's rangefinder system, they are just wonderful for portraits.  They are priced similar to nice samples of the latest Leica Elmarit-M with internal lens hood, but provide an additional stop of light, weight about the same, are as sharp, but with slightly less contrast (a good thing for use with digital in my opinion).  portrait @ about 1.5m, wide open: Canon 85 f1.8 RF LTM by teknopunk.com, on Flickr  portrait @ about 5m, cropped ~f2: sunny by teknopunk.com, on Flickr  close up, minimum focus, wide open, full frame: black Canon 85 1:1.8 RF LTM on M9 close focus @f1.8 by teknopunk.com, on Flickr  I do have the latest Leica 90 Elmarit-M, which does have higher contrast and really is sharp across the whole frame from f2.8 on. I prefer the Canon as of it's faster aperture and nicer tonality into the shadows.  I do have the latest pre ASPH 90 Summicron-M, which does have a different character of the out of focus backgrounds as of it's different optical design (the Canon is a Sonnar design, while the Summicron a Double Gauss). I prefer the Summicron for it's more creamy, neutral OOF rendering in difficult backlight, but highly prefer the Canon for it's longer focus throw, providing much easier critical focus. I also prefer the nicer tones into the shadows of the Canon - it simply doesn't clip blacks, it seems ;-) If I need, I always can do this in post processing, adding shadow detail after the fact though is not possible with the more contrasty Leica lenses.  The Canon 85/1.8 is also sharper wide open, than the Summicron pre ASPH.  I tried the 90 Summicron-APO and didn't like it. It shares the more difficult to attain focus in quickly paced shooting with the latest pre ASPH and is a lot more contrasty. This lens is best paired with a 50 Summilux ASPH, which I sold in the end.  There are endless other possibilities, especially with older LTM lenses, made from the 1950s - early 1970s. Many different characters with the pinnacle of this period, having named the Canon 85/1.8 and 100/2 by many. The Canon 100/2 btw is another wonderful tele, which is almost as good performing, as it's later, improved variation in the 85mm and coming at almost half the cost than the 85, therefore much less, than comparable Leica M lenses (90/2, that is). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted November 25, 2011 Share #10 Â Posted November 25, 2011 I'd have no worries getting the tele-elmar version, but if sharpness is you thing, the elmarit-m is sharper. Â There are other options that may come close such as the 75/1.8 VC or the 85/2 zeiss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 25, 2011 Share #11 Â Posted November 25, 2011 For good order's sake folks: the Tele-Elmar is a 135mm lens & the Tele-Elmarit is a 90 in either "fat" or "thin" version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 25, 2011 Share #12 Â Posted November 25, 2011 To add to the confusion: The Tele-Elmar is nearly as good as the Apo-Telyt, much like the Elmarit-M is nearly as good as the Apo Summicron asph... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted November 25, 2011 Share #13 Â Posted November 25, 2011 You got already good advice. Concerning the Tele Elmarit 90, I had the thin version and besides size, I did not like it. It's quite soft at f2.8 and prone to flare. Have a look at the Summarit 90, new and a little faster than the Elmarit -M. I think it's underrated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted November 25, 2011 Share #14 Â Posted November 25, 2011 Well, OP are you confused yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzo Posted November 25, 2011 Share #15 Â Posted November 25, 2011 .... Don't know about OP but, I know I am .......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Seeney Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share #16  Posted November 25, 2011 Thanks everyone.  Completely clear - I need to buy all of them  Those Canon shots are lovely - see if I can find one used somewhere but failing that it looks the elmarit-m and the 135 tele....and a 1.4x  Thanks once again  Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 26, 2011 Share #17 Â Posted November 26, 2011 Only spend money on the magnifier after you have bought and used your lenses and after you have optimized your viewfinder with a diopter- it might be money wasted, especially the 1.4. Loses quite a bit of brightness and contrast. I personally find focussing easier without a magnifier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted November 26, 2011 Share #18 Â Posted November 26, 2011 I second Jaap's advice regarding the magnifier. I don't use mine, even for 135mm lenses. Â It costs already half the cost of a very nice, fast 90mm lens and potentially just sits in the closet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nibbler Posted November 26, 2011 Share #19  Posted November 26, 2011 What about the Canon ltm 85 2.0, for example here  Would that be nice on an M9? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted November 26, 2011 Share #20  Posted November 26, 2011 What about the Canon ltm 85 2.0, for example here Would that be nice on an M9?  This is a much older design, not comparable with the later black Canon RF lenses. This design stems still from Canon's beginnings of entering the RF market, to compete with Nippon Kogaku (now Nikon), Zeiss and Leitz.  It is a very heavy chrome on brass lens. The same vintage Nikkor lens is a better performer and is regarded as the lens, that made Nippon Kogaku famous, together with the then Nikkor-S.C 5cm f1.4.  The price on the auction is too high for this condition. For the same price, one could find a nice user black Canon 100 f2 LTM - a lens much more advanced than this old design.  This made me chuckle:  "GUARANTEED OLD STOCK USA NOT POST TSUNAMI CONTAMINATED JAPANESE MERCHANDISE !!!"  This is one of the best FUD, I have seen, selling a more than 50 year old lens Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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