Philgp Posted October 2, 2011 Share #1 Posted October 2, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi all, I just got a leica m4-p over the weekend, loaded the film like I was meant to (I think) and shot a whole roll of film. I then proceeded to rewind the film, but the film snapped as I did that. Is this a common problem, and how can it be fixed? Am I to blame, or is the camera to blame? The camera isn't in great condition but I thought it was worth a punt. The tulip resists a fair bit if I turn it backwards manually. After the film has snapped, I open the back and because of the elasticity it has snapped back towards the tulip. Cn anyone offer this newbie some advice? I don't wish to waste a third roll of film. Many thanks, Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 Hi Philgp, Take a look here New user of m4-p, keep snapping film. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Philgp Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share #2 Posted October 2, 2011 Okay, I have an update. The problem, it seems, is not with the tulip takeup spool, but possibly with the sprocket wheel just before it. I tried winding a film partly through and then gently rewinding, all with the back open, and saw that the sprocket wheel was refusing to budge in the rewind direction. It moves forward when the advance lever is rotated, but it just doesn't want to move the other way. If the rewind wheel is the only means to rewinding the film, then surely the sprocket wheel should rewind with minimal friction? The first clue that this was happening was that the sprocket holes were being ripped, so that was where the tension was caused. Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted October 2, 2011 Share #3 Posted October 2, 2011 Never had anything like this in 50 years - so it isn't common. In order to rewind it is first necessary to flip the rewind lever on the front of the camera to the "R" position, as this releases the wind sprockets so they will turn freely backwards. If you don't do that, or if the sprockets don't release, the film can't rewind even if the "tulip" will turn. Without film in the camera, open the back and flip the rewind lever to "R" and see if the sprockets are free to turn in both directions. If not there is a mechanical problem. I introduced two digital photographers to film cameras who both had problems rewinding, because I didn't stress the rewind lever (or button) to release the film. Old timers forget that these things aren't intuitive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philgp Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share #4 Posted October 2, 2011 Second update I now see that I was meant to switch the switch on the front to "R". That must've seemed like a newbie error, but. I am a newbie and my camera didn't come wi any documentation so I had to work it out myself. Looking forward to coming across some real problems and hoping users here may be able to help me with those! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philgp Posted October 2, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted October 2, 2011 Never had anything like this in 50 years - so it isn't common.In order to rewind it is first necessary to flip the rewind lever on the front of the camera to the "R" position, as this releases the wind sprockets so they will turn freely backwards. If you don't do that, or if the sprockets don't release, the film can't rewind even if the "tulip" will turn. Without film in the camera, open the back and flip the rewind lever to "R" and see if the sprockets are free to turn in both directions. If not there is a mechanical problem. I introduced two digital photographers to film cameras who both had problems rewinding, because I didn't stress the rewind lever (or button) to release the film. Old timers forget that these things aren't intuitive. I saw this JUST after I figured it out for myself. Great advice, I am kicking myself for wasting two films on this... Thanks for your help, and I hope I haven't worn out my welcome with my stupid newbie-ness. I am hoping to really get into rangefinders after having shot digital for years... Pease continue to help me, I'm sure I'll make more mistakes! Thanks again! Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumen Posted October 2, 2011 Share #6 Posted October 2, 2011 Hi Philgp, you probably know about this but you can get a manual for your M4-p here: Leica M4 - p, instruction manual, user manual, PDF manual, free manuals Nice camera btw- I've recently got a IIIc and am finding my way around its idiosyncrasies too- wouldn't swap it for the world though! Enjoy.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted October 2, 2011 Share #7 Posted October 2, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Better have a REALLY good look round inside and amke sure there are no bits of film lying around, if they get in the shutter thay can do a lot of damage. Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted October 2, 2011 Share #8 Posted October 2, 2011 +1 on getting the film pieces out. This I have had happen to me on a previously owned camera. Never force anything. Never heard of this in 30 years of Leica. If you are pushing the rewind lever to rewind position to loosen the sprocket wheel before you attempt rewind, the camera needs repair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 2, 2011 Share #9 Posted October 2, 2011 If you are pushing the rewind lever to rewind position to loosen the sprocket wheel before you attempt rewind, the camera needs repair. Confused. The OP wasn't moving the rewind lever - he needs to set it to rewind the film doesn't he? I know I do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philgp Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share #10 Posted October 3, 2011 Thanks guys, all fixed now. I held the rewind switch and was able to rewind the film no problem. Again, hope I haven't worn out my welcome with my silly newbie-ness, it's the first time I use a manual rewind camera and I guess I just wasn't thinking. I shot my first successful test roll yesterday (including rewinding!) and getting it developed, hoping the camera works well, don't see why it shouldn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpattison Posted October 3, 2011 Share #11 Posted October 3, 2011 I held the rewind switch and was able to rewind the film no problem. Hi Philgp, and welcome to the forum, and the ways of the rangefinder! Do you mean that you had to HOLD the rewind lever, all the time you wound the film back? If you did, then that is a problem, as it should stay in the R position. If so, a CLA is in order. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted October 3, 2011 Share #12 Posted October 3, 2011 Questions always welcome. Sometimes we need to look for the obvious like did you move the lever to R position. Note how many skipped the obvious. What is frustrating is telling what is wrong and they don`t believe you. Much of that is darkroom work though and they read all kinds of misinformation on the net, then you become the one who knows nothing. Presoaking film and stand development and controling contrast by fooling with agitation all fall into the above . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alun Posted October 17, 2011 Share #13 Posted October 17, 2011 Philgp, The little rewind lever should stay in position once pushed to the left. Inserting and winding on the new film should 'reset' the little rewind lever back to its upright position. From what you describe it doesn't sound as if there's a mechanical problem -- just unfamiliarity. I think you'd need to work harder to wear out your welcome here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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