j. borger Posted February 15, 2007 Share #21 Â Posted February 15, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) And even if it was announced as temporary 1.09beta I think they could have given us something that corrects the color cast and cyan corners when shooting with 486 filters until they get it 100% right. Hello Tom, Â With the ungoing negativity around the M8 ....... i do not think Leica does itself a favor with half-solutions at this stage...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted February 15, 2007 Share #22  Posted February 15, 2007 Hello Tom, With the ungoing negativity around the M8 ....... i do not think Leica does itself a favor with half-solutions at this stage......  you might be right. They could read the forum and give the 1.10beta only to "Non-Whiners" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek Posted February 15, 2007 Share #23 Â Posted February 15, 2007 One bug per 1000 lines of code is being _very_ optimistic IMHO ;-) Â Well, yes ;-) .. It was only to state that bugfree non-trivial sw is very very unlikely :-(( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek Posted February 15, 2007 Share #24 Â Posted February 15, 2007 Well, yes ;-) .. It was only to state that bugfree non-trivial sw is very very unlikely :-(( Â ..But I fogot to state that I'm a very very happy M8 & 2.8/28 ASPH user .. trying to decide the next and discounted lens! Â Svend Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannirr Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share #25  Posted February 15, 2007 Someone asked why another thread on this topic, and suggested reading past threads.  I started this thread because I had not seen a date earlier than Feb for a release of 1.10 until I read the quote I posted from the Leica website that clearly says december 2006. Additionally, the reason for concern is not because I expect a major difference from 1.09, but because a delay from Dec 2006 until now, coupled with their drop of the digital module for the R9, could (emphasise could not does) indicate a much bigger problem at Leica.  Let us not forget that just a few short months ago, the very viability of Leica camera was at stake, and only a last minute deal saved the company. Stability is not assured, only desired.  Danni  PS As to beta testers: I am fairly sure Sean and others are testing 1.10, and am happy for that - I trust their input and judgements. I also understand that we are all beta testers of these products, no matter how large or smal the market is - and that is true of almost all things - including our high tech cars, high def TV, new computor chips etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted February 15, 2007 Share #26 Â Posted February 15, 2007 My feeling is that Leica will only offer the 1.10 when enough M8's owners will have received both their free Leica 486 filters. Â The 1.10 doesn't really make sense without them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted February 15, 2007 Share #27  Posted February 15, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) My feeling is that Leica will only offer the 1.10 when enough M8's owners will have received both their free Leica 486 filters. The 1.10 doesn't really make sense without them. In that v1.10 is supposed to also fix numerous other image related problems not related to IR, I don't agree. The IR/Cyan issue is a nuisance, corrupted images due to sensor readout faults or the camera not being all 'booted' when the shutter is pressed is a major issue.  I do agree that it is better to wait a liottle longer and get something that works than get it early just to find out that it hasn't been propperly QA'ed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted February 15, 2007 Share #28  Posted February 15, 2007 My feeling is that Leica will only offer the 1.10 when enough M8's owners will have received both their free Leica 486 filters. The 1.10 doesn't really make sense without them.  Many people allready have B&W and others 486-filters because they/we didnt like to wait for Leica for 12 weeks to supply a filter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 15, 2007 Share #29 Â Posted February 15, 2007 I have had filters for all my lenses for months and many have not waited for the free ones from Leica. Let's remember PMA starts March 8th, I'm sure there is a hard deadline at some point before this show is my guess. Â Â BTW just because they fix many bugs does not automatically mean new ones arise. That simply is a bad statement to assume it would, sure something can come up but don't expect it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveEP Posted February 15, 2007 Share #30 Â Posted February 15, 2007 Ask youselves this question: Â If Leica had introduced v1.10 on Feb 1 (or even Dec 2006) and it stil had some problems you thought 'should' have been fixed, would you be calling them heroes for releasing the firmware when 'you' thought they should, or would you vilify them for launching it too early? Â I suspect that the people complaining about it being vapourware would answer the latter.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannirr Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share #31 Â Posted February 15, 2007 Ask youselves this question:Â If Leica had introduced v1.10 on Feb 1 (or even Dec 2006) and it stil had some problems you thought 'should' have been fixed, would you be calling them heroes for releasing the firmware when 'you' thought they should, or would you vilify them for launching it too early? Â I suspect that the people complaining about it being vapourware would answer the latter.... Â I don't recall anyone here, including me who started this thread, complaining about v1.10 being vaporware. I did. however, ASK the question, and I believe it is a legitimate question. Anyone investing in this or any system should evaluate the backup service offered - that is simply responsible. You seem to forget that Leica has already shown a willingness to abandon a new digital, high-end, expensive, professional and revolutionary product once already. Â Furthermore, there are many here, including me, who have been using Leica rangefiner cameras for over 20 years and have invested heavily financially, and shown tremendous loyalty to the company and the product. I have a collection of Leica cameras extending back to 1925 (yes, the first year of production when less than 1000 were made) and all are used on a fairly frequent basis to this day. We are not "johnny-come-latelys" who simply want the latest high tech perfect camera to take the perfect picture. Â Asking questions is not irresponsible, nor insulting. Not asking questions is. Â Danni Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted February 15, 2007 Share #32 Â Posted February 15, 2007 I don't recall anyone here, including me who started this thread, complaining about v1.10 being vaporware. I did. however, ASK the question, and I believe it is a legitimate question. Â Danni, Â Some people might have interpreted the subject line of your post as a complaint. Although it was provocative, I agree, there's nothing wrong with addressing the subject. Â Like many others here, I'm more concerned that the update be right than I am with it being on schedule. Â Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted February 15, 2007 Share #33 Â Posted February 15, 2007 Nothing wrong asking the question but it IS being done. Nuff said:D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted February 15, 2007 Share #34 Â Posted February 15, 2007 DaveEP, Â The classical answer is.."It Depends..." Many of the more savvy software companies have developed the practice of providing release notes that have three major headings: 1. New Features added since last release dated mm/dd/yyyy (US Format) followed by a list and explanation of new features. 2. Bugs Fixed followed by a list of the bugs that have been fixed (some you wouldn't have known were there. 3. Known Bugs to be fixed at a future release followed by a generally short list of bugs that didn't make their cutoff for the release. Â I call this good communications with the customer. First, it shows that the company is listening to the customer and cares about the customers needs (especially the addition of new features). Second, customers can usually recognize that the high priority bugs have been addressed and they may have been spared a problem they didn't know existed but someone else encountered. Third, they can see that the company is aware of bugs they weren't able to fix within the time frame but at least they got many of the bugs and features that were most critical and finally they see a track record that the company intends to continue to address bugs and improve the product with new features where it makes sense. Â The entire package communicates a sense of caring about the quality of the product and the customer. From a marketing standpoint it is the cumulative communications elements that paint a perception in the minds of clients and future clients about what kind of company you are. Â Don't get me wrong, I really like my camera (M8) but I want to feel that the company cares about me as a customer so I don't want to have to worry that tomorrow my $$$ camera is going to suddenly and unexpectedly crash requiring a trip to Solms. I want to see WB and AWB at least as good as I can get in a $500 camera (if all these $200-$500 cameras can do it why can't Leica?). I want JPGs from the camera that require minimal or no post processing for those times I want to just go shoot and post on the Internet for my friends without hours at the computer first. I don't want to have to worry when I by a brand name SD card that it won't work with my camera and will cause untold problems to appear, I want lens data in the EXIF and would prefer (for non coded lenses to be able to enter it manually and I want f stop either guesstimated or manually entered recorded because I won't remember what I did the same day much less several days later. I promise I won't vilify them if they communicate honestly in the format I presented earlier. :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted February 15, 2007 Share #35  Posted February 15, 2007 You seem to forget that Leica has already shown a willingness to abandon a new digital, high-end, expensive, professional and revolutionary product once already. If you are referring to the DMR – well, that’s neither new nor is it abandoned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 15, 2007 Share #36  Posted February 15, 2007 If you are referring to the DMR – well, that’s neither new nor is it abandoned. Are you sure Michael? I've read the contrary but i don't remember where sorry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted February 15, 2007 Share #37 Â Posted February 15, 2007 I know we have 13 days but I am still concerned when cameras are still being shipped at this late date without it. It seems the least Leica should be able to do is provide a date when it will be available. I manage software development for much larger projects than a camera and we can predict within two weeks when we will be ready since we have already been beta testing for months or weeks before that and made a decision about what fixes/features we will include and which ones will wait for the next release. In fact the majority of the development team is usually down the road working on the next release long before we release. Â HI John I also develop software, I have two models for updates, either: 1. when it's ready 2. at a stated date. Â If a client insists on 2, then it will be delivered considerably later than if they are happy with 1. Â Leica has no need to fix a date - if the did have such a need, then I assume that they would build in enough time to allow for unforseen slip-ups etc. Â At some point they will decide it's ready, and at that point (presumably) it'll take less than a day to publish it. Â I expect those layabouts Guy and Sean are drinking too much coffee and spending too little time testing . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barjohn Posted February 15, 2007 Share #38 Â Posted February 15, 2007 Jono, Â I concur. I think Guy and Sean are DEFINITELY spending too much time drinking coffee and need to hurry up and get the beta testing done! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted February 15, 2007 Share #39 Â Posted February 15, 2007 I concur. I think Guy and Sean are DEFINITELY spending too much time drinking coffee and need to hurry up and get the beta testing done! Â Is this correct that Leica's software testing is dependent on Guy and Sean? Can anyone confirm this?? Â edit: Or rather, with all due respect can anyone confirm this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdai Posted February 15, 2007 Share #40 Â Posted February 15, 2007 Are you sure Michael? I've read the contrary but i don't remember where sorry. Â What Michael says is absolutely truth ... Â 1. DMR was introduced more than 2 years ago so it's NOT new ... 2. Leica promised continuing support so it's not abandoned. Â Question is ... many DMR users expect that Leica continue to provide added features or performance enhancement through firmware upgrades, which is unrealistic due to current conditions. Think about it ... has Canon or Nikon ever done such with any of their digital models? Yes, they've corrected errors in Chinese or Russian menus. Â Leica certainly isn't the worst in this regard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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