ho_co Posted August 4, 2011 Share #1 Â Posted August 4, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) It's already been reported on the forum that the latest M8/M9 firmware includes the code for a new 50/2 lens. Â Reading between the lines of the LFI 6/2011 comparison of 50mm M lenses, it looks to me as if the company is stirring the waters in preparation for its launch. Â Or does no one else get that feeling from the article? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 4, 2011 Posted August 4, 2011 Hi ho_co, Take a look here new 50 Summicron close?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted August 4, 2011 Share #2 Â Posted August 4, 2011 There have been rumours Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted August 4, 2011 Share #3  Posted August 4, 2011 Close to launch, or close to actually being available? Two distinctly different questions in Leicaland  With the current Summicron having doubled in price over the last few years, I wonder how much a new one will cost, and how much better it can possibly be in real-world performance. The Noctilux and Summilux were both somewhat old designs with some readily apparent room for significant improvement (signature preferences aside---I'm a big fan of the pre-Lux and no desire to own the new one), whereas the Summicron is pretty close to the Summilux ASPH (some say better at some apertures) already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted August 4, 2011 Share #4  Posted August 4, 2011 Doubling price? - on the second hard market perhaps, but in the Leica price lists you have to go far back until you find a price tag for this lens, which was half of it's present price.  There is not such a big price difference between the Summarit and the present Summicron. So a new version (perhaps aspherical?) for about 2000,-€ would reduce the rivalry with the Summarit and could also take some pressure away from the overheated demand for the Summilux. I think it would make sens.  Reports which said, Leica would make no Summicron asph, because it would be too expensive for the market are rather old now and Leica's production of aspherical lenses has changed as well as the market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted August 4, 2011 Share #5 Â Posted August 4, 2011 I've heard similar rumours (and am open minded about the possibility) but you would have thought that, had the lens been imminent, it would have been announced at the recent Paris event. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 4, 2011 Share #6  Posted August 4, 2011 I don't receive LCI but i've heard rumors about a new 50/2 asph as well. Nothing sure at all and no idea about date or price either but there is a gap of €1710 between Summarit (1100) and Summilux asph (2810) so the new Summicron could sell at around €1800 in Europe i.e. €200 more than the current Summicron. Just a guess though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted August 4, 2011 Share #7 Â Posted August 4, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, let's face it, if the latest software does include a code for a yet to be released new Summicron 50, it can't be that far away. If there would be Photokina this year, my guess would be that they unveil the new lens there, but the next Photokina is only in 2012. Maybe they just phase it in before Xmas . Â Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted August 4, 2011 Share #8  Posted August 4, 2011 Maybe they just phase it in before Xmas .Andy Hi Andy  Thanks for warning I'll get Rudulph to start training early for increased load.  Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted August 4, 2011 Share #9 Â Posted August 4, 2011 Perfidious Leica! Â How DARE they even think of introducing a new lens design when there is a man in Poughkeepsie who has been waiting a fortnight for a Summilux! Don't they realise that they should give micrometrically precise delivery dates for all backlogged lenses before they even dream of bringing out another? Why have they not set up three more factories to produce the backlogged lenses? This is just another example of how badly they treat their customers. We should all go elsewhere, particularly those of us who have put our name down on four or more dealer lists without a deposit and STILL haven't got a lens within 48 hours!! Â Disgraceful I call it. Â Regards, Â Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted August 4, 2011 Share #10 Â Posted August 4, 2011 The title of this thread (...close...) has made me think that a great thing they could do is to revive the Dual Range... after all, they make the "goggle unit" for the Macro Elmar 90... a similar device (to 0,4 or even 0,35 mtr.) for the prospected new Summicron could be a smart addon and a good sale argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digbyhp Posted August 5, 2011 Share #11 Â Posted August 5, 2011 I'd love to see an updated version of the 50mm Summicron. I've been wanting to get a 50mm focal length for a while, but the current different 50mm offerings all have their shortcomings - although the current 50 S'cron is compact, sharp and shares the 39mm filter thread with my 35 S'cron, the reports of flare-proneness and harsh bokeh wide-open have put me off. The 50 S'lux gets rave reviews optically but is too large for my tastes and about $AUD1200 more expensive. So a new S'cron that solved the flare and bokeh issues, but kept the size and approx price of the current version would be a definite goer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted August 5, 2011 Share #12 Â Posted August 5, 2011 So a new S'cron that solved the flare and bokeh issues, but kept the size and approx price of the current version would be a definite goer. Â Try Summarit f/2.5 or the ZM Planar, or Konica, or CV Helier or Nikkor HC etc. Leica will go to a new cron when they can make it for X % less and sell it for Y % more. Zeiss get Cosina to manufacture most of the ZMs cause they make more profit. Â Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted August 5, 2011 Share #13 Â Posted August 5, 2011 Leica will go to a new cron when they can make it for X % less and sell it for Y % more. Â History shows that this is not true. The new and current Summilux 50 asph. certainly costs more to make (more expensive lens elements and more expensive mechanics as well) than its predecessor, and still Leica went for the new lens, simply because it is significantly better than the old one. Upon introduction, the price of the new lens was raised compared to the old model, but not much. Â Same with the Summicron: Leica will bring a new model once a) it is significantly better than the old one, and it will not be substantially more expensive than the old one. Â Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted August 5, 2011 Share #14 Â Posted August 5, 2011 Doubling price? - on the second hard market perhaps, but in the Leica price lists you have to go far back until you find a price tag for this lens, which was half of it's present price. Â You didn't mention what your definition is of "far back" so I can't contradict you, but I can say that in mid-2007 my dealer had several new 50 Crons in stock for $1095 . Today the price is $2000, if you can find one in stock and the dealer is nice enough not to ask a premium. To me that's close enough to call it double. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted August 5, 2011 Share #15  Posted August 5, 2011 History shows that this is not true. The new and current Summilux 50 asph. certainly costs more to make (more expensive lens elements and more expensive mechanics as well) than its predecessor, and still Leica went for the new lens, simply because it is significantly better than the old one. Upon introduction, the price of the new lens was raised compared to the old model, but not much. Same with the Summicron: Leica will bring a new model once a) it is significantly better than the old one, and it will not be substantially more expensive than the old one.  Andy Hi Andy  Marketing by product of the bull. The preasph lux was an antique from early 60s, it may have died cause some of the glass was no longer obtainable or contrabanded for processig hazards. The glass is a very small fraction of the production cost, the grinding would be simpler cause the radius of curvatures are not so constrained, the high refractive index glass needs less curve to bend the light, they might have arranged to do some of the elements together even. Do not know why they went to a floating element but it wont have been to increase the production costs, an additional heliciod is another few CNC milling steps. Modern lenses are cheaper to make.  Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted August 5, 2011 Share #16 Â Posted August 5, 2011 Aspherical lenses are good at correcting coma which is one of the (few) foibles of the current Summicron. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 5, 2011 Share #17 Â Posted August 5, 2011 ...(snip)...The glass is a very small fraction of the production cost, the grinding would be simpler cause the radius of curvatures are not so constrained, the high refractive index glass needs less curve to bend the light, they might have arranged to do some of the elements together even.Do not know why they went to a floating element but it wont have been to increase the production costs, an additional heliciod is another few CNC milling steps. Modern lenses are cheaper to make. Â Â You might be interested in this article by Puts. Note especially the section on Glass, where he explains that one of the glass elements in the new Summilux costs more than all seven elements combined in the prior version. And that without automated machining made possible by current technology, the price would have been significantly higher. Â The floating element was included to address close focus issues, as also explained in the article. Â Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted August 5, 2011 Share #18  Posted August 5, 2011 Hi Jeff  Smoke and mirrors. The new glass probably did cost 7x times but that still does not make it a large fraction of the production costs, dont think Puts says it was a large fraction... And Olympus were making wide angle lenses & macro lenses with floating elements for close up in late 70s, but that is not necessarily the reason why Leica went to one for the lux. It normally takes them a decade to admit to anything strange. Like the M2 was cheaper in 58 cause the viewfinder was easier to make... And the pre asph lux type II was introduced without any fanfare in 62-63 cause the type I was not competative, with Nikon and Canon.  Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted August 6, 2011 Share #19 Â Posted August 6, 2011 Well, Noel, if you don't trust Puts, then perhaps you'll believe Peter Karbe, the fellow who designed the lens. He's very clear about the use of the floating element and various other difficulties (including size and weight) associated with producing the outstanding 50 Summilux asph. Â BTW, the extreme cost of the one element is explained here, no doubt the source of Puts' statement. I couldn't care less about the glass cost versus production cost, but nevertheless find his commentary quite interesting. Â More importantly, the end result is superb, for me and for many others. Â Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted August 6, 2011 Share #20 Â Posted August 6, 2011 Reading between the lines it appears difficult to make any of the more exotic lenses economically and make a profit..... Â Presumably that is why they are pushing Summarits ...... Â I cant see the point of a new 50/2 .... as Karbe says there has to be a quantum leap in performance otherwise it is pointless.... and it is hard to see where that is going to come from in this lens.... Â and they can't currently keep up with demand for any of the current non-summarit line-up.... Â If I was Leica and did have a replacement lens in pre-production I would stall for time and build up a nice pile of cash..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.