pico Posted July 24, 2011 Share #41 Posted July 24, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) What went wrong? Sometimes I think I'm sick for my longing of a past I never directly knew, but if the alternative is today's madness... Cheers, Bruno Find a later version of the Zeiss Super Ikon 645 (Model 531) and be happy. All mechanical. 120 film. Folds up to fit in the palm of your hand. Here's my favorite. Models a bit earlier had a shutter release by the lens. The best had two releases to accommodate horizontal and vertical orientation easily. Image quality with the Tessar lens is good. Here is one on that big auction site. It is probably going to sell for over $400 USD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 Hi pico, Take a look here Future of 35mm format lenses. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pico Posted July 24, 2011 Share #42 Posted July 24, 2011 What went wrong? Sometimes I think I'm sick for my longing of a past I never directly knew, but if the alternative is today's madness... Cheers, Bruno Find a later version of the Zeiss Super Ikon 645 (Model 531) and be happy. All mechanical. 120 film. Folds up to fit in the palm of your hand. Here's my favorite. Models a bit earlier had a shutter release by the lens. The best had two releases to accommodate horizontal and vertical orientation easily. Image quality with the Tessar lens is good. Here is one on that big auction site. It is probably going to sell for over $400 USD Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
!Nomad64 Posted July 24, 2011 Share #43 Posted July 24, 2011 There are F/2 MF lenses. Mind mentioning some, please? It's not for the sake of arguing (I have absolutely no reason to) but to shrink a bit my ignorance... Thanks, Bruno Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
!Nomad64 Posted July 24, 2011 Share #44 Posted July 24, 2011 There are F/2 MF lenses. Mind mentioning some, please? It's not for the sake of arguing (I have absolutely no reason to) but to shrink a bit my ignorance... Thanks, Bruno Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
!Nomad64 Posted July 24, 2011 Share #45 Posted July 24, 2011 Find a later version of the Zeiss Super Ikon 645 (Model 531) and be happy. All mechanical. 120 film. Folds up to fit in the palm of your hand. Here's my favorite. Models a bit earlier had a shutter release by the lens. The best had two releases to accommodate horizontal and vertical orientation easily. Image quality with the Tessar lens is good. Here is one on that big auction site. It is probably going to sell for over $400 USD Thanks Pico, I didn't even know these existed (shame on me!) but right now I'm pretty happy with my M3. It's all I could ever want from a camera. Cheers, Bruno Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
!Nomad64 Posted July 24, 2011 Share #46 Posted July 24, 2011 Find a later version of the Zeiss Super Ikon 645 (Model 531) and be happy. All mechanical. 120 film. Folds up to fit in the palm of your hand. Here's my favorite. Models a bit earlier had a shutter release by the lens. The best had two releases to accommodate horizontal and vertical orientation easily. Image quality with the Tessar lens is good. Here is one on that big auction site. It is probably going to sell for over $400 USD Thanks Pico, I didn't even know these existed (shame on me!) but right now I'm pretty happy with my M3. It's all I could ever want from a camera. Cheers, Bruno Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 24, 2011 Share #47 Posted July 24, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) What went wrong? The comparison is impressive but not useful. You're comparing an embedded system with just a few core functions, operated by highly trained staff, with a general purpose computer which could - in principle - be operated by anyone. You'd just as soon compare a test tube containing some E. Coli bacilli with the zoo enclosure for a herd of elephants. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 24, 2011 Share #48 Posted July 24, 2011 What went wrong? The comparison is impressive but not useful. You're comparing an embedded system with just a few core functions, operated by highly trained staff, with a general purpose computer which could - in principle - be operated by anyone. You'd just as soon compare a test tube containing some E. Coli bacilli with the zoo enclosure for a herd of elephants. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 24, 2011 Share #49 Posted July 24, 2011 Mind mentioning some, please?... Other than Planar 80/2 i don't know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted July 24, 2011 Share #50 Posted July 24, 2011 Mind mentioning some, please?... Other than Planar 80/2 i don't know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 24, 2011 Share #51 Posted July 24, 2011 I don't follow your reasoning or conclusions there at all, but to speak only on Leica, the M system is the core and strength of Leica Camera. There is no evidence at all to suggest any abandonment of that. Quite the contrary. Comments by Stefan Daniel recently published only again reinforce that position. ..........I'm wondering what will be near future of our precious 35mm format leica glass? ...........So, my point is, aren't our expensive Leica lenses going to become obsolete in very near future? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 24, 2011 Share #52 Posted July 24, 2011 I don't follow your reasoning or conclusions there at all, but to speak only on Leica, the M system is the core and strength of Leica Camera. There is no evidence at all to suggest any abandonment of that. Quite the contrary. Comments by Stefan Daniel recently published only again reinforce that position. ..........I'm wondering what will be near future of our precious 35mm format leica glass? ...........So, my point is, aren't our expensive Leica lenses going to become obsolete in very near future? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 24, 2011 Share #53 Posted July 24, 2011 Well, of course there always will be small cameras for mass production. But these people do not buy exchangable lenses, and do not affect amateur-pro gear prices and trends for lens manufactors. But for serious hobbyst/professional, I believe, files quality is more important than the size, within some acceptable ranges(5d ii for DSLR or M9 for RF is OK). Otherwise everyone would drop their D3/M9 and went shooting with X100 So if MF digital camera appears, at affordable price and size, considering files quality boost it provides, many of the hobbyst/professional are supposed to switch. And now, they are the people, who affect the prices, and lens makers will be happy to address their new needs. The limiting factor is not the sensor size, or performance, but lens design, production and cost. Technology has almost got us to the point where digital sensors can outperform film in a given size - remember that the M9 is still the only full frame digital camera in 35 mm format. Granted, technology will continue to improve the electronics - more efficient battery use, better heat management, better high ISO performance etc. But the front bit - the lens, aperture and shutter - is using technology unchanged since before the Ur Leica. Mounts, quality and materials have improved, but the concept is unchanged. Switch to a different format, and you have an immediate problem - lens legacy. The R range is now deceased, but it is still useable with adaptors on current cameras. To design and manufacture an entire new range of lenses for an entirely new format would be a big task for the pro-amateur market. Watch the S2 - it has almost done what you describe. The S2 body is not really that much different from a full frame dSLR from Nikon or Canon, yet its sensor is considerably bigger. There are currently, what, 4 lenses available for the S2, and an adapter. If I still had them, I could have used my Hasselblad lenses (non-AF, mind you) on an S2 body, but I have no desire to start using my Tenba backpack again. At this stage, 35mm is less about the film/sensor size than about lens and overall system size. As I understand it, the full frame sensor in the M9 is as big as you can go realistically with existing 35 mm lenses. That's your limiting factor. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted July 24, 2011 Share #54 Posted July 24, 2011 Well, of course there always will be small cameras for mass production. But these people do not buy exchangable lenses, and do not affect amateur-pro gear prices and trends for lens manufactors. But for serious hobbyst/professional, I believe, files quality is more important than the size, within some acceptable ranges(5d ii for DSLR or M9 for RF is OK). Otherwise everyone would drop their D3/M9 and went shooting with X100 So if MF digital camera appears, at affordable price and size, considering files quality boost it provides, many of the hobbyst/professional are supposed to switch. And now, they are the people, who affect the prices, and lens makers will be happy to address their new needs. The limiting factor is not the sensor size, or performance, but lens design, production and cost. Technology has almost got us to the point where digital sensors can outperform film in a given size - remember that the M9 is still the only full frame digital camera in 35 mm format. Granted, technology will continue to improve the electronics - more efficient battery use, better heat management, better high ISO performance etc. But the front bit - the lens, aperture and shutter - is using technology unchanged since before the Ur Leica. Mounts, quality and materials have improved, but the concept is unchanged. Switch to a different format, and you have an immediate problem - lens legacy. The R range is now deceased, but it is still useable with adaptors on current cameras. To design and manufacture an entire new range of lenses for an entirely new format would be a big task for the pro-amateur market. Watch the S2 - it has almost done what you describe. The S2 body is not really that much different from a full frame dSLR from Nikon or Canon, yet its sensor is considerably bigger. There are currently, what, 4 lenses available for the S2, and an adapter. If I still had them, I could have used my Hasselblad lenses (non-AF, mind you) on an S2 body, but I have no desire to start using my Tenba backpack again. At this stage, 35mm is less about the film/sensor size than about lens and overall system size. As I understand it, the full frame sensor in the M9 is as big as you can go realistically with existing 35 mm lenses. That's your limiting factor. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted July 24, 2011 Share #55 Posted July 24, 2011 1. don't buy lenses for investments. 2. operative word in your question seems to be consumer/prosumer (not sure if you actually used that word but) - it is likely to be a cold day in hell, before very many consumers carry a medium-format interchangeable lens camera to a birthday party or hiking in the mountains. I used to go dog-sledding with a pentax 645 + zoom, the slides were phenomenal, but the camera was too large and too heavy for practical fun. Note the rumors of the Nikon EVIL camera, a even smaller sensor, they are seeing consumers wanting interchangeable lens fun, but pocket-able cameras. in todays 15+ megapix world, very few are not already totally happy with the image quality. one of my friends managed to do a vacation in France, (coming from California) and photograph the entire event with his iPhone.. I stick to my story - cold day in hell before medium format become the format of choice for consumers. (unless mediumformat cameras fit in my iPhone in the future) Bo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo_Lorentzen Posted July 24, 2011 Share #56 Posted July 24, 2011 1. don't buy lenses for investments. 2. operative word in your question seems to be consumer/prosumer (not sure if you actually used that word but) - it is likely to be a cold day in hell, before very many consumers carry a medium-format interchangeable lens camera to a birthday party or hiking in the mountains. I used to go dog-sledding with a pentax 645 + zoom, the slides were phenomenal, but the camera was too large and too heavy for practical fun. Note the rumors of the Nikon EVIL camera, a even smaller sensor, they are seeing consumers wanting interchangeable lens fun, but pocket-able cameras. in todays 15+ megapix world, very few are not already totally happy with the image quality. one of my friends managed to do a vacation in France, (coming from California) and photograph the entire event with his iPhone.. I stick to my story - cold day in hell before medium format become the format of choice for consumers. (unless mediumformat cameras fit in my iPhone in the future) Bo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 24, 2011 Share #57 Posted July 24, 2011 This is a long thread about a non-issue imo. Large/medium format has coexisted with135 format for nearly a century. So what isnew? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 24, 2011 Share #58 Posted July 24, 2011 This is a long thread about a non-issue imo. Large/medium format has coexisted with135 format for nearly a century. So what isnew? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted July 25, 2011 Share #59 Posted July 25, 2011 More f/2 (or larger) MF lenses (although they rare enough to be notable): 110mm f/2 Zeiss Planar for Hasselblad 2000/201 (focal-plane shutter cameras): Hasselblad 110mm f/2 Planar FE T* Lens Sample Photos and Specifications f/1.8 Ernostar for Ermanox cameras (various cameras, various focal lengths): Ermanox Ad From 1927 photo - Pete Ganzel photos at pbase.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted July 25, 2011 Share #60 Posted July 25, 2011 More f/2 (or larger) MF lenses (although they rare enough to be notable): 110mm f/2 Zeiss Planar for Hasselblad 2000/201 (focal-plane shutter cameras): Hasselblad 110mm f/2 Planar FE T* Lens Sample Photos and Specifications f/1.8 Ernostar for Ermanox cameras (various cameras, various focal lengths): Ermanox Ad From 1927 photo - Pete Ganzel photos at pbase.com Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.