My M9 is eating SD cards [MERGED}

[Washington]

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I have no suggestions but I tend to agree with Andy and others on the use of smaller

cards…. and I don’t think they have to be ‘’super-duper’’ very expensive cards either.

I have used the same 8 gig San Disc Extreme I bought a long time ago when I got the camera…. and have since bought the same for back-up. I just have a gut feeling the

M-9 just works better with mid-range cards. I have nothing to base this on other than

the fact I tend to stick with what works.

Oh, I purchased my back-up card directly from SanDisc avoiding counterfeit cards

that are such exact copies on the outside they fool experts. There are a huge amount

of undetectable phonies being sold in good faith by reputable dealers…. their suppliers

can’t tell the difference!!!!

[k-hawinkler]

Here is my list for discussion:

 

• Your M9 is switched off. If you press down the shutter button, does the red LED blink. Please, record Yes or No.

• Firmware: Please record version. 1.162, 1.138, 1.116, 1.002. Is this correct, are there others?

• We should probably only test the newest two versions. Emphasis on the latest version.

 

• Please identify your memory card.

 

M9 parameters that may be involved:

 

• Advance: Standard, Soft, Discreet, Discr & Soft.

• Bracketing setup: No. of exposures: 3,5,7,Sequence: 0/+/-, -,0,+, EV increments: 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2 EV. <= Maybe only need to vary No. of exposures.

• Histogram: Standard, RGB, Clipping setup: Off, Overexposure only, Over / underexposure.

• Auto review: Duration: Off, 1s, 3s, 5s, Permanent, Rel.button pressed, Histogram: On, Off.

• Auto power off: 1 min., 2 min., 5 min., 10 min., Off.

• DNG setup: Uncompressed, Compressed.

 

• Compression: DNG, DNG & JPG fine (Probably less interesting to test: JPG fine, JPG basic, DNG & JPG basic)

• Exp. bracketing: Off, On.

 

Operator actions:

 

• Shutter switch set to S or C.

• How many shots fired?

 

While images were being saved to the memory card. Did you:

 

• switch M9 off?

• Press on Play button?

• Turn the wheel, flip through images, zoom in, reposition the zoom area?

• Press any of the directional buttons? Which one(s)?

 

• Also, after approximately how many shots did something go wrong?

• Any other relevant noteworthy observations?

 

Please, record your observations carefully.

 

I would like to suggest that folks, who have encountered problems, repeat and carefully record this time the scenario in which the M9 malfunctioned before.

 

Best, K-H.

 

 

Hi there,

 

BTW, it's K-H for Karl-Heinz.

I agree. Without the issues, the M9 is absolutely wonderful. No doubt about it.

 

Everybody has to be mindful that we are interested only in the intermittent problem.

This has to be very carefully separated from everyday malfunctions, like hardware parts or memory cards really going bad.

 

Best, K-H.

 

 

 

dwbell,

I find this a very interesting idea. I have been wrapping my mind around some of the same thoughts in the last few days and going over the manual as to what may be different in these shutter modes. Thank you for bringing it up - you beat me to the punch.

 

I have almost always been using discrete mode and also have auto-off set to 1 min. I still can't figure why different SD cards come into the mix (at least for me) but that may have to do with write speeds and buffer interaction/handling.

 

 

K-H,

Yes, excellent list. I will go through the list for my experience and answer soon.

 

 

Another parameter I'd like to throw into the mix: What is the battery level when the "failure" occurs? The battery level reading is a fairly complex function in the camera. If there is a slight error in this analysis (even momentarily) it is conceivable that it causes some pausing in the SD card write to preserve power. Just another random thought....

 

 

I am encouraged that the tone of this thread has now turned to pinning down facts and symptoms. That is a step forward in itself.

 

RM

 

 

Where to go with this? Very simple.

Help identify which specific combination of functionality of the M9 dramatically seems to increase the probability of failure so that Leica has a better chance of correcting the problem.

 

Of course, battery condition and environmental parameters such as temperature should also be noted.

 

 

PROPOSAL:

 

So, this would be the process, aside from the above mentioned items.

 

• Format memory card in M9

• Keep a record of all M9 settings.

• Then systematically run a series of exposures, pushing buttons, wheel, shutting M9 off, until the M9 fails. Focus on an area where your M9 has failed before. Once successfully failed the M9, shut camera down, battery out for a minute, back in and on, vary your camera settings to see whether a different combination also fails, etc.

• Give an accurate description here in this thread.

• I am personally willing to invest about 1000 shutter actuations to make my camera fail. Remember, it's an intermittent problem. It doesn't happen all the time. If it does, then there is something else wrong that Leica needs to repair.

 

I would like to invite feedback and discussion of my proposal for the next 48 hours.

Then we should list a detailed testing procedure that everybody who is willing to participate should follow.

 

Of course, I will not engage in testing if I want to make sure I keep my images intact.

However, sitting in a comfy chair, maybe with a tea, latte or a little bit of wine, listening to soothing music, is probably the right setting to engage in testing.

 

What do you think?

Feedback please.

 

Best, K-H.

[k-hawinkler]

Here is my list for discussion:

 

• Your M9 is switched off. If you press down the shutter button, does the red LED blink. Please, record Yes or No.

• Firmware: Please record version. 1.162, 1.138, 1.116, 1.002. Is this correct, are there others?

• We should probably only test the newest two versions. Emphasis on the latest version.

 

• Please identify your memory card.

 

M9 parameters that may be involved:

 

• Advance: Standard, Soft, Discreet, Discr & Soft.

• Bracketing setup: No. of exposures: 3,5,7,Sequence: 0/+/-, -,0,+, EV increments: 0.5, 1, 1.5, 2 EV. <= Maybe only need to vary No. of exposures.

• Histogram: Standard, RGB, Clipping setup: Off, Overexposure only, Over / underexposure.

• Auto review: Duration: Off, 1s, 3s, 5s, Permanent, Rel.button pressed, Histogram: On, Off.

• Auto power off: 1 min., 2 min., 5 min., 10 min., Off.

• DNG setup: Uncompressed, Compressed.

 

• Compression: DNG, DNG & JPG fine (Probably less interesting to test: JPG fine, JPG basic, DNG & JPG basic)

• Exp. bracketing: Off, On.

 

Operator actions:

 

• Shutter switch set to S or C.

• How many shots fired?

 

While images were being saved to the memory card. Did you:

 

• switch M9 off?

• Press on Play button?

• Turn the wheel, flip through images, zoom in, reposition the zoom area?

• Press any of the directional buttons? Which one(s)?

 

• Also, after approximately how many shots did something go wrong?

• Any other relevant noteworthy observations?

 

Please, record your observations carefully.

 

I would like to suggest that folks, who have encountered problems, repeat and carefully record this time the scenario in which the M9 malfunctioned before.

 

Best, K-H.

 

 

Hi there,

 

BTW, it's K-H for Karl-Heinz.

I agree. Without the issues, the M9 is absolutely wonderful. No doubt about it.

 

Everybody has to be mindful that we are interested only in the intermittent problem.

This has to be very carefully separated from everyday malfunctions, like hardware parts or memory cards really going bad.

 

Best, K-H.

 

 

 

dwbell,

I find this a very interesting idea. I have been wrapping my mind around some of the same thoughts in the last few days and going over the manual as to what may be different in these shutter modes. Thank you for bringing it up - you beat me to the punch.

 

I have almost always been using discrete mode and also have auto-off set to 1 min. I still can't figure why different SD cards come into the mix (at least for me) but that may have to do with write speeds and buffer interaction/handling.

 

 

K-H,

Yes, excellent list. I will go through the list for my experience and answer soon.

 

 

Another parameter I'd like to throw into the mix: What is the battery level when the "failure" occurs? The battery level reading is a fairly complex function in the camera. If there is a slight error in this analysis (even momentarily) it is conceivable that it causes some pausing in the SD card write to preserve power. Just another random thought....

 

 

I am encouraged that the tone of this thread has now turned to pinning down facts and symptoms. That is a step forward in itself.

 

RM

 

 

Where to go with this? Very simple.

Help identify which specific combination of functionality of the M9 dramatically seems to increase the probability of failure so that Leica has a better chance of correcting the problem.

 

Of course, battery condition and environmental parameters such as temperature should also be noted.

 

 

PROPOSAL:

 

So, this would be the process, aside from the above mentioned items.

 

• Format memory card in M9

• Keep a record of all M9 settings.

• Then systematically run a series of exposures, pushing buttons, wheel, shutting M9 off, until the M9 fails. Focus on an area where your M9 has failed before. Once successfully failed the M9, shut camera down, battery out for a minute, back in and on, vary your camera settings to see whether a different combination also fails, etc.

• Give an accurate description here in this thread.

• I am personally willing to invest about 1000 shutter actuations to make my camera fail. Remember, it's an intermittent problem. It doesn't happen all the time. If it does, then there is something else wrong that Leica needs to repair.

 

I would like to invite feedback and discussion of my proposal for the next 48 hours.

Then we should list a detailed testing procedure that everybody who is willing to participate should follow.

 

Of course, I will not engage in testing if I want to make sure I keep my images intact.

However, sitting in a comfy chair, maybe with a tea, latte or a little bit of wine, listening to soothing music, is probably the right setting to engage in testing.

 

What do you think?

Feedback please.

 

Best, K-H.

[mawipingpong]

exactly what happened to me - with same card. was not able to recover lost data, as computer no longer acknowledged the card's existence

 

Same behavior with both a SanDisk 8GB Extreme Pro 45 and a SanDisk 8GB Extreme 30... bummed by the fact that anything electronic on the Leica feels like the late 90's!

[mawipingpong]

exactly what happened to me - with same card. was not able to recover lost data, as computer no longer acknowledged the card's existence

 

Same behavior with both a SanDisk 8GB Extreme Pro 45 and a SanDisk 8GB Extreme 30... bummed by the fact that anything electronic on the Leica feels like the late 90's!

[t024484]

bummed by the fact that anything electronic on the Leica feels like the late 90's!

 

How exactly does supposed electronics from the late 90's feel that is hidden within the camera ?

I can understand your frustration in the case of loosing valuable shot's.

But as long as airplanes keep crashing because of bugs in software, tested with almost unlimited budgets, there is no such thing as a bugfree complex digital system.

Leica is no exception to that.

Again I can understand yor anger, but do not blame Leica for using crappy hardware, because they don't.

 

Hans

[t024484]

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bummed by the fact that anything electronic on the Leica feels like the late 90's!

 

How exactly does supposed electronics from the late 90's feel that is hidden within the camera ?

I can understand your frustration in the case of loosing valuable shot's.

But as long as airplanes keep crashing because of bugs in software, tested with almost unlimited budgets, there is no such thing as a bugfree complex digital system.

Leica is no exception to that.

Again I can understand yor anger, but do not blame Leica for using crappy hardware, because they don't.

 

Hans

[jaapv]

Same behavior with both a SanDisk 8GB Extreme Pro 45 and a SanDisk 8GB Extreme 30... bummed by the fact that anything electronic on the Leica feels like the late 90's!

The fact that it is not even recognized by the computer points a finger at the card. Nearly all camera faults produce a card that can be read but contain 0Kb files, or is at least visible in the computer. I would concentrate on trying to read the crashed card if I were you, it may well be that your images are still there. A file restructuring by Disk Warrior (if you are on MAC) may well resurrect it.

This effect can also be seen on a card that has been ejected improperly, during file writing.

[jaapv]

Same behavior with both a SanDisk 8GB Extreme Pro 45 and a SanDisk 8GB Extreme 30... bummed by the fact that anything electronic on the Leica feels like the late 90's!

The fact that it is not even recognized by the computer points a finger at the card. Nearly all camera faults produce a card that can be read but contain 0Kb files, or is at least visible in the computer. I would concentrate on trying to read the crashed card if I were you, it may well be that your images are still there. A file restructuring by Disk Warrior (if you are on MAC) may well resurrect it.

This effect can also be seen on a card that has been ejected improperly, during file writing.

[dwbell]

How exactly does supposed electronics from the late 90's feel that is hidden within the camera ?

I can understand your frustration in the case of loosing valuable shot's.

But as long as airplanes keep crashing because of bugs in software, tested with almost unlimited budgets, there is no such thing as a bugfree complex digital system.

Leica is no exception to that.

Again I can understand yor anger, but do not blame Leica for using crappy hardware, because they don't.

 

Hans

 

Hans - let's not derail this. Maybe re-read what he posted, he said "anything electronic feels like", now I read that to mean any electronic interface, as in non-mechanical part of the camera. I didn't read it to be a criticism of the physical electronic components as you've interpreted it.

[dwbell]

How exactly does supposed electronics from the late 90's feel that is hidden within the camera ?

I can understand your frustration in the case of loosing valuable shot's.

But as long as airplanes keep crashing because of bugs in software, tested with almost unlimited budgets, there is no such thing as a bugfree complex digital system.

Leica is no exception to that.

Again I can understand yor anger, but do not blame Leica for using crappy hardware, because they don't.

 

Hans

 

Hans - let's not derail this. Maybe re-read what he posted, he said "anything electronic feels like", now I read that to mean any electronic interface, as in non-mechanical part of the camera. I didn't read it to be a criticism of the physical electronic components as you've interpreted it.

[wlaidlaw]

I wonder if we should be doing full formats rather than quick formats of our cards more often. As I understand it, a quick wipe just clears the FAT (File Allocation Table), which then allows previous data to be overwritten. The problem is that for a 16GB card, as I recall, a full format takes around 20+ minutes, against the seconds of a quick format.

 

Wilson

[wlaidlaw]

I wonder if we should be doing full formats rather than quick formats of our cards more often. As I understand it, a quick wipe just clears the FAT (File Allocation Table), which then allows previous data to be overwritten. The problem is that for a 16GB card, as I recall, a full format takes around 20+ minutes, against the seconds of a quick format.

 

Wilson

[k-hawinkler]

I wonder if we should be doing full formats rather than quick formats of our cards more often. As I understand it, a quick wipe just clears the FAT (File Allocation Table), which then allows previous data to be overwritten. The problem is that for a 16GB card, as I recall, a full format takes around 20+ minutes, against the seconds of a quick format.

 

Wilson

 

 

Hi Wilson,

 

Many thanks. Good point.

 

Yup, or longer for slower cards. Another advantage of doing a format with overwrite in a computer is that it finishes correctly when no bad spots are encountered Otherwise it is easy to detect a problem with the storage media. I don't know what the M9 does but would be very interested in being informed about it authoritatively.

 

Of course, then the card should be formatted in the M9. First time around I always choose Overwrite, subsequently Yes.

If any issue shows ever up, repeat from the beginning, I would say.

 

Best, K-H.

[k-hawinkler]

I wonder if we should be doing full formats rather than quick formats of our cards more often. As I understand it, a quick wipe just clears the FAT (File Allocation Table), which then allows previous data to be overwritten. The problem is that for a 16GB card, as I recall, a full format takes around 20+ minutes, against the seconds of a quick format.

 

Wilson

 

 

Hi Wilson,

 

Many thanks. Good point.

 

Yup, or longer for slower cards. Another advantage of doing a format with overwrite in a computer is that it finishes correctly when no bad spots are encountered Otherwise it is easy to detect a problem with the storage media. I don't know what the M9 does but would be very interested in being informed about it authoritatively.

 

Of course, then the card should be formatted in the M9. First time around I always choose Overwrite, subsequently Yes.

If any issue shows ever up, repeat from the beginning, I would say.

 

Best, K-H.

[mjm6]

K-H,

 

I'm not sure that anyone can follow the directions, as they spread over a number of posts in this thread. Once you have the procedure figured out, you may want to start another thread to lay down all the settings and procedures in a single place.

 

I have had these problems (as I stated in the early parts of the tread), and I can specifically date the first time I had the problem, and the cards that I was using. I'm almost positive it was right after the new firmware, but I need to check the dates tonight.

 

I'm happy to do some testing, but I'll need a specific sequence of actions, and would ultimately prefer that this effort be synchronized with Leica in some way, because otherwise the information collected will not be used in any meaningful way to fix the problem.

 

---Michael

[mjm6]

K-H,

 

I'm not sure that anyone can follow the directions, as they spread over a number of posts in this thread. Once you have the procedure figured out, you may want to start another thread to lay down all the settings and procedures in a single place.

 

I have had these problems (as I stated in the early parts of the tread), and I can specifically date the first time I had the problem, and the cards that I was using. I'm almost positive it was right after the new firmware, but I need to check the dates tonight.

 

I'm happy to do some testing, but I'll need a specific sequence of actions, and would ultimately prefer that this effort be synchronized with Leica in some way, because otherwise the information collected will not be used in any meaningful way to fix the problem.

 

---Michael

[k-hawinkler]

K-H,

 

I'm not sure that anyone can follow the directions, as they spread over a number of posts in this thread. Once you have the procedure figured out, you may want to start another thread to lay down all the settings and procedures in a single place.

 

I have had these problems (as I stated in the early parts of the tread), and I can specifically date the first time I had the problem, and the cards that I was using. I'm almost positive it was right after the new firmware, but I need to check the dates tonight.

 

I'm happy to do some testing, but I'll need a specific sequence of actions, and would ultimately prefer that this effort be synchronized with Leica in some way, because otherwise the information collected will not be used in any meaningful way to fix the problem.

 

---Michael

 

 

Hi Michael,

 

Many thanks. You are correct.

 

I will do exactly what you ask for and appreciate any feedback provided by anybody.

Also, some forum members seem to have excellent contacts within Leica that they might use for our effort.

I very much would welcome Leica's guidance as well so that our effort isn't wasted and as productive as possible.

 

Thanks again.

 

Best, K-H.

[k-hawinkler]

K-H,

 

I'm not sure that anyone can follow the directions, as they spread over a number of posts in this thread. Once you have the procedure figured out, you may want to start another thread to lay down all the settings and procedures in a single place.

 

I have had these problems (as I stated in the early parts of the tread), and I can specifically date the first time I had the problem, and the cards that I was using. I'm almost positive it was right after the new firmware, but I need to check the dates tonight.

 

I'm happy to do some testing, but I'll need a specific sequence of actions, and would ultimately prefer that this effort be synchronized with Leica in some way, because otherwise the information collected will not be used in any meaningful way to fix the problem.

 

---Michael

 

 

Hi Michael,

 

Many thanks. You are correct.

 

I will do exactly what you ask for and appreciate any feedback provided by anybody.

Also, some forum members seem to have excellent contacts within Leica that they might use for our effort.

I very much would welcome Leica's guidance as well so that our effort isn't wasted and as productive as possible.

 

Thanks again.

 

Best, K-H.

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Hallo,

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[wlaidlaw]

I did contact Andreas about this issue some time ago and asked if he could seek some guidance from Leica about what info from us could help Leica but I have heard nothing back. I sometimes wonder if there is an element of NIH (Not Invented Here) about Leica.

 

I sent a previous detailed proposal to Stefan Daniel about setting up a worldwide network of approved rangefinder service stations, with Leica trained but dealer employed technicians; at least one per country that has significant M sales. The analogy I quoted was that I would not expect to take my Porsche back to Stuttgart to have the front wheel alignment checked, so why should my Leica have to back to Solms for a minor rangefinder adjustment. He thanked me for the proposal and passed it on to a couple of senior Leica people for them to assess and let me know what they thought about the feasibility of the proposal. That was a year ago and I have heard nothing since.

 

Wilson