scrubs Posted July 20, 2011 Share #401 Posted July 20, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) What is going to convince you your camera is broken? Leave the card as is in the camera, write down what happened and send it in for repair. I suppupose Jaap, from what correspondence I have had It seems they have no idea how to fix it that's why - and certainly know solution to hand and fear it will be a wasted excersize. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 20, 2011 Posted July 20, 2011 Hi scrubs, Take a look here My M9 is eating SD cards [MERGED}. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted July 20, 2011 Share #402 Posted July 20, 2011 Well, in your place my camera would be on a bench in Solms with me on the phone until it was fixed. And if not.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 20, 2011 Share #403 Posted July 20, 2011 I wonder if Ford would diagnose a problem with one of their cars via emails to and from the owner, other than to offer advice such as 'have you put petrol in' etc. I doubt it, and I doubt Leica are about to start doing that. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 20, 2011 Share #404 Posted July 20, 2011 And maybe best to deal with Solms directly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelduck Posted July 20, 2011 Share #405 Posted July 20, 2011 Pick up a telephone and call them.....Or just drop off the camera at the post office or your dealer. I got a reply today and my M9 is going to Solms... M6 is coming back from repair friday next week, so I have to load some film to my Minolta Himatic F... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 20, 2011 Share #406 Posted July 20, 2011 Send the failed card(s) and files with the camera. Fingers crossed for a quick return. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_M Posted July 20, 2011 Share #407 Posted July 20, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) It has been suggested before but with no response so far.So here is my question: Is there anybody having trouble with SD cards in the M camera reading them exlusively with a Windows PC. If it turns out that only Mac users are having trouble, it will narrow down the search for a cause. Hans Yes, I've used Windows XP exclusively for downloading the M9 SDHC cards. I have never used the USB connection to the camera. I always use a card reader for the SD/SDHC cards or the SD reader slot built into the computer. Any problems I've reported here have used this OS and methods. I do not think there is any firm evidence that the computer OS is related to SD card problems. It is an issue of M9 and the handling of the card. The problems I've reported here are intermittent and very difficult to track down. I've spent far more time writing and discussing it here than actually dealing with it in the camera. My goal is to understand the problem and characteristics enough to actually intelligently ask for a solution. Without some better understanding of the problem, I can't really expect anyone to fix it. RM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted July 20, 2011 Share #408 Posted July 20, 2011 Yes, I've used Windows XP exclusively for downloading the M9 SDHC cards. I have never used the USB connection to the camera. I always use a card reader for the SD/SDHC cards or the SD reader slot built into the computer. Any problems I've reported here have used this OS and methods. I do not think there is any firm evidence that the computer OS is related to SD card problems. It is an issue of M9 and the handling of the card. The problems I've reported here are intermittent and very difficult to track down. I've spent far more time writing and discussing it here than actually dealing with it in the camera. My goal is to understand the problem and characteristics enough to actually intelligently ask for a solution. Without some better understanding of the problem, I can't really expect anyone to fix it. RM Robert, You hit the nail on the head. I wholeheartedly agree. Intermittent problems, especially those that only show up very occasionally and are only really noticed at the most inopportune times, are exceedingly difficult to track down. If Leica or their partner hasn't already done so, they need to set up a dedicated testbed with a larger number of M9s and run systematically user patterns on them that have a higher probability of triggering the malfunctions. Those test M9s also need to be properly instrumented with regards to their electronic components so that a malfunction can be adequately recorded and analyzed. From what I observe, the intermittent problem(s) seem hard to pin down as they might entail both SD card issues and management of interrupts driven by camera operator/user actions. Best, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 20, 2011 Share #409 Posted July 20, 2011 Robert, You hit the nail on the head. I wholeheartedly agree. Intermittent problems, especially those that only show up very occasionally and are only really noticed at the most inopportune times, are exceedingly difficult to track down. If Leica or their partner hasn't already done so, they need to set up a dedicated testbed with a larger number of M9s and run systematically user patterns on them that have a higher probability of triggering the malfunctions. Those test M9s also need to be properly instrumented with regards to their electronic components so that a malfunction can be adequately recorded and analyzed. From what I observe, the intermittent problem(s) seem hard to pin down as they might entail both SD card issues and management of interrupts driven by camera operator/user actions. Best, K-H. Especially if the number of cameras afflicted appears to be rather limited. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_M Posted July 21, 2011 Share #410 Posted July 21, 2011 I would like to point out that nearly all experts have counselled against using the USB connection from the very beginning. Jaap, I'm confused by this statement. Personally, I've never even used the USB connection on the M9 (or any camera for that matter). But why did Leica supply the camera to me with a USB cable and detailed instructions in the manual if it is not recommended to use this? And, in that nice video of the M9 factory assembly at Leica, I see them using only the cable. Don't interpret my question wrong. I'm not trying to needle or provoke. I'm really just trying to understand the origin of the statement and how much weight I should give this. Is this just rumor/legend or is there solid fact behind the statement. I truly don't know and ask in the interest of trying to establish various facts and documented effects. As I say, I don't even use the function so certainly won't effect my use of the camera. Please bear with me for the probing question. RM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted July 21, 2011 Share #411 Posted July 21, 2011 Robert, have you seen Mark Norton's "Anatomy of the M8" thread? I think it was there or soon after its appearance that the idea came up that using the USB connector might not be best because of the way it is mounted. Stresses to the USB connector might be transmitted to one of the camera's main boards. Of course, that was before people started having problems with the card socket in the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shard Posted July 21, 2011 Share #412 Posted July 21, 2011 In general I try not to use a USB connection and prefer a card reader because every device will have it's own driver that is installed on your computer. It causes clutter over time. Especially for someone like me who handles about 10 to 20 different cameras a year. There is also the issue of the compatibility, quality of the drivers and the card readers in the camera to consider. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted July 21, 2011 Share #413 Posted July 21, 2011 Ok, my M9 shat itself again today. Taking shot's of my daughter at the birthday table. Not fast paced, not even close to using any buffer capacity just a shot now and then. Then it froze, locked up, wouldn't turn on. Then after 5 minutes it would turn on and the last 4 shots were missing. It had also upped the ISO from 400 to 1600 during that time. It's going back to Solms and I'm taking my 5DII on the Italian Lakes trip I had planned to use the M9 on. Sadly the M9 has turned into an extravagant quirk rather than useful photographic tool. I'll let you all know the results of Leica's correspondence and findings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 21, 2011 Share #414 Posted July 21, 2011 Jaap, I'm confused by this statement. Personally, I've never even used the USB connection on the M9 (or any camera for that matter). But why did Leica supply the camera to me with a USB cable and detailed instructions in the manual if it is not recommended to use this? And, in that nice video of the M9 factory assembly at Leica, I see them using only the cable. Don't interpret my question wrong. I'm not trying to needle or provoke. I'm really just trying to understand the origin of the statement and how much weight I should give this. Is this just rumor/legend or is there solid fact behind the statement. I truly don't know and ask in the interest of trying to establish various facts and documented effects. As I say, I don't even use the function so certainly won't effect my use of the camera. Please bear with me for the probing question. RM I don't know why it is provided, but it can be useful for tethering - the M8 had software for that- and in some cases when a reader is not available. There are some concerns about the mechanical stability of the connector, there is a chance of a power surge damaging the camera (Not a joke, in the area where I have my practice they are quite common and I had electronic damage to all kinds of equipment several times already) and in my case I am likely to trip over the wire. Plus I understand it is quite a bit slower than an USB 2.0 or firewire reader. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_M Posted July 21, 2011 Share #415 Posted July 21, 2011 Robert, have you seen Mark Norton's "Anatomy of the M8" thread? I think it was there or soon after its appearance that the idea came up that using the USB connector might not be best because of the way it is mounted. Stresses to the USB connector might be transmitted to one of the camera's main boards. Of course, that was before people started having problems with the card socket in the camera. Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of that thread. Will go look at it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted July 21, 2011 Share #416 Posted July 21, 2011 I think the USB port is there for Leica manufacture and service diagnostic purposes mostly. Best practice as has been mentioned here again and again is to remove card and use a reader. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert_M Posted July 21, 2011 Share #417 Posted July 21, 2011 I don't know why it is provided, but it can be useful for tethering - the M8 had software for that- and in some cases when a reader is not available.There are some concerns about the mechanical stability of the connector, there is a chance of a power surge damaging the camera (Not a joke, in the area where I have my practice they are quite common and I had electronic damage to all kinds of equipment several times already) and in my case I am likely to trip over the wire. Plus I understand it is quite a bit slower than an USB 2.0 or firewire reader. Yes, it is all those reasons that I never bother with usb cables on most devices if I can directly take out the memory card. Thanks. I hear you on surges. You live in a very stable power area compared to the US SW during July/Aug. There is a reason that our national lightening study observatory is in southern NM. Links below show some examples of what I deal with in Tucson each summer (I'm reluctant to just post some of these pics because of copy write issues). I put surge protectors on most outlets and have small UPS systems on critical electronics. Tucson lightning Stock Photos and Images. 50 tucson lightning pictures and royalty free photography available to search from over 100 stock photo brands. Monsoon Mountian Lightning in Tucson Arizona This lightning picture was shot at the Badab Dao'og overlook on Mount Lemmon Highway. The lightning was less than a mile away. - Arizona Dragon Lightning and Landscape Photography! Stock Lightning and Severe Weather Photos Photographs for advertising and editorial publincation If you are really interested, I can tell you how to protect microamp/millivolt sensitive, scientific measurement equipment on a mountaintop observatory when there are lightening strikes 100m away (yes, I really have dealt with this). RM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 21, 2011 Share #418 Posted July 21, 2011 Not so stable - I'm very close to one of Europe's main heavy industry complexes. Shell's main refinery is 500 m from my practice.. I have surge protectors on all sensitive gear now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
perb Posted July 21, 2011 Share #419 Posted July 21, 2011 In general I try not to use a USB connection and prefer a card reader because every device will have it's own driver that is installed on your computer. It causes clutter over time. Especially for someone like me who handles about 10 to 20 different cameras a year. There is also the issue of the compatibility, quality of the drivers and the card readers in the camera to consider. As far as I'm aware, both "USB mass storage" and PTP use universal drivers. No special drivers should be necessary, and therefore no clutter. However, displaying DNG's in the MS Win file explorer (don't know about Mac) may need special s/w from Adobe. I think the USB port is there for Leica manufacture and service diagnostic purposes mostly. Best practice as has been mentioned here again and again is to remove card and use a reader. Yes, and I think this is the main reason a USB connector will remain a feature even on future M's, despite many users wanting it removed. Robert, have you seen Mark Norton's "Anatomy of the M8" thread? I think it was there or soon after its appearance that the idea came up that using the USB connector might not be best because of the way it is mounted. Stresses to the USB connector might be transmitted to one of the camera's main boards. Of course, that was before people started having problems with the card socket in the camera. It's been a while since I visited Mark Norton's "Anatomy of the M8" thread, but I don't remember noting that "Stresses to the USB connector might be transmitted to one of the camera's main boards". Thanks for pointing it out, ho_co. The key points in my mind as to why it is better to use a card reader are: * You rely on battery power (both Leica and Mark Norton use a laboratory power supply to replace the battery http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/80260-anatomy-leica-m8s-power-consumption.html) * The transfer speed of the M8 is about 5-6 MB/s, and I guess the M9 is similar. Compare this with typical 15 - 45 MB/s for a card in a reader. Regards Per PS. I do like the USB connector for tethering, but wish I had external power. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted July 21, 2011 Share #420 Posted July 21, 2011 Seems this problem existed on the M8, the M8.2 and was feared to carry over into the M9. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/98708-piece-bad-news-seans-m9-review.html So not a new thing at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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