Dust and the M8

[dugby]

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I'm starting to read in this forum, more and more references to dust on the M8 sensor requiring either 'end-user bravery' to clean the sensor or a M8 holiday in Germany.

 

Has this been a problem for other cameras...ie RD-1s etc

 

You've got me paranoid .....and not wanting to swap lenses....

 

 

Or do those M8 users with this issue, have you been swapping lenses in very dusty/windy conditions ?

 

In earlier days I used to carry a black bag for handling film issues....... do we now need to carry a "dust free bag..... to swap lenses in the field ?"

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[Eoin]

Sensor dust is a fact of life with digital cameras. It's not limited to the M8 but present (perhaps to a slightly lesser extent) with every camera with exchangeable lenses.

It's a technique you'll need to master, the ability to clean a contaminated sensor but more important is the preventative maintenance of blowing the sensor with a rocket blower frequently. This prevents the buildup and can stop dust baking it's self to the sensor.

 

At this stage since November, I have never had to "wet clean" but have on many occasions blown contamination / dust from the sensor. I use the rocket blower (never compressed air) and I have no qualms about changing lenses in most conditions. I had occasion many times to wet clean my Canon's but I had them for a couple of years and have no doubt the M8 will require in due course. When this arises, pec pads and eclipse fluid will do the trick. there are plenty of well written articles on the matter and if your handy I'd strongly suggest you have a go. Once mastered, dust will become less of an issue and you can enjoy without fear the ability to change lenses in most situations.

[DaveEP]

Dust is going to be a problem. Get used to it. I have had my M8 for only a few weeks, but already had to give it the blower treatment after changing lenses several times in a light breeze. It have me thinking again about getting a Tri-Elmar

 

Dust is a problem of almost all cameras that can change lenses. There are a few out there with anti dust systems, including the Sony, and Canon 400D. I happen to also have a 400D (am selling it now the M8 has arrived) and the anti dust system on that works VERY well. It's actually the DSLR I have never had to clean the sensor on - even after changing lenses many times - including on the deck of a moving ship with 30-40 mph winds accross it. No dust spots visible on any shots. Amazing. Hopefully Leica will have this one day - but until then - it's the blower, and in extreme cases pads and fluid. It's the one task I really hate having to do as well.....

[Iron Flatline]

The other thing to keep in mind is that, pending on what you shoot, the dust spots are nearly invisible. They get lost in the textures of the background, etc. They are most visible against a bright clear sky, or a white wall, esp. beyond f/11 and exposures over 1/100. The best way to deal with them is the Patch Tool in Photoshop. Occasionally you'll need to blow stuff off with a rocket. And if you have to "wet clean" your sensor, be careful, but don't freak out. It's not THAT insanely difficult, just use your head.

[Guest WPalank]

So far I have been changing my lenses frequently and have had no problems with dust. What looked like a dust problem on the sensor was quickly diagnosed to be dust on the lens. So start by keeping your lenses clean.

Secondly, what seems to be dust (at least on the Nikon and Canon systems) are metal filings from the mounts that you are screwing in and out. That being said, I always keep my camera pointed towards the ground when changing lenses and hope that gravity will take care of most of that.

 

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[Bill W]

My M8 came with some spots on the sensor that I noticed the first time I shot something with a lot of sky in the background. After reading the instructions for cleaning the sensor, I first tried the trusty Giotto rocket but that did not help. I then used Eclipse and Pecpads which did the trick. I had cleaned my Nikon sensors in the past so I had a little experience. The M8 sensor is actually a lot easier to get to and clean. I visual inspection with a magnifier did not show the spots but they did show up in photos.

[mike prevette]

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My M8 doesn't get any more or less dust than any other digital camera I've used, and I swap lenses a lot. It is much EASIER to clean however. Very rarely has the dust been noticable in everyday shooting. It's more prevelent on longer lenses, that are stopped down.

 

_mike

[Shootist]

I'm starting to read in this forum, more and more references to dust on the M8 sensor requiring either 'end-user bravery' to clean the sensor or a M8 holiday in Germany.

 

Has this been a problem for other cameras...ie RD-1s etc

 

You've got me paranoid .....and not wanting to swap lenses....

 

 

Or do those M8 users with this issue, have you been swapping lenses in very dusty/windy conditions ?

 

In earlier days I used to carry a black bag for handling film issues....... do we now need to carry a "dust free bag..... to swap lenses in the field ?"

 

Just buy a sensor cleaning kit that uses Eclipse solution, Pecpads and sensor swipe. Then get use to cleaning the sensor every month or so or when you see dust spots on the images.

I got mine kit from Copperhill Imaging (s). I do regular cleanings on all interchanceable lens digital cameras, whether I see dust or not.

[jrc]

Going back to Dugby's original post...don't even think about sending it off somewhere to get it cleaned; that's just not reasonable. You have to learn to do it yourself. When the first Nikons came out, Nikon suggested that they only be cleaned by the factory. It very quickly became obvious that that was absurd -- people in any dry place often had to clean the camera every day, and the turn-around from the factory was several weeks. Also, the cleaning process could be mastered by anyone who could wash a coffee cup; it's just not that hard. My personal feeling was that Nikon was worried that somebody would scratch the dust spot off with a fingernail, or the tip of a knife blade, and didn't want to have to fix it under warranty.

 

I have taken the D1x, the D2x and the Kodak SLRn on archaeological digs in the middle east where I was shooting eighty or a hundred shots a day, and changing lenses ten or fifteen times, in an environment where people were scraping dust off a desert tel (mound), and then throwing the buckets of dust onto a pile -- thousands and thousands of buckets. We lived in dust. And you sometimes had to clean the cameras two or three times in a day while you were pouring sweat. You could still get them clean, even working inside a car. In my opinion, the Sensor Brush system from Visible Dust is the best one.

 

Dust isn't always invisible even when on a complicated matching surface -- it shows up as a dull spot on a shot that otherwise looks pretty good.

 

If you want to know how much dust your camera sensor has, go out and shoot it at a blue sky, load it into Photoshop, and hit Autolevels. You'll be amazed.

 

JC

[barjohn]

There appears to be considerable confusion and different recomendations from different individuals. I am not an expert in this area however the attached .pdf documents present the Kodak reccomendations for cleaning the sensor used in the M8. I would suggest that this is probably the best and safest way to go unless you have expertise that goes beyond that provided by Kodak's engineers.

 

Here is a link to the cleaner .pdf too. http://www.kodak.com/ezpres/business/ccd/global/plugins/acrobat/en/supportdocs/cleaningCoverGlass.pdf

 

Note they suggest Kodak lens cleaning paper catalog # 154 6027 or equivalent and 200 proof ethyl alcohol. Here is at least one source for the alcohol : Ethyl Alcohol, Absolute, 200 Proof, Reagent, ACS * 64-17-5 ($31.00 for 100 ml) or here Dehydrated Ethanol, Absolute, 200 Proof, Reagent, ACS ($16.00 100ml)

KAF-10500LongSpec.pdf

cleaningCoverGlass.pdf

[jrc]

There appears to be considerable confusion and different recomendations from different individuals. I am not an expert in this area however the attached .pdf documents present the Kodak reccomendations for cleaning the sensor used in the M8. I would suggest that this is probably the best and safest way to go unless you have expertise that goes beyond that provided by Kodak's engineers.

 

Here is a link to the cleaner .pdf too. http://www.kodak.com/ezpres/business/ccd/global/plugins/acrobat/en/supportdocs/cleaningCoverGlass.pdf

 

This is the same kind of recommendation offered by Nikon, which proved to be so impractical. Note that the date on this document is 2001. They suggest in one sentence that you blow the surface of the cover glass off with a compressed gas source, and then, in the next, warn against using a compressed gas canister. So where does the compressed gas come from, a chemistry lab?

 

One of the main things you should NEVER do is blow off the surface of the sensor with compressed air or gas from the source that we all have, which is compressed gas canisters. The propellant may get on the surface of the sensor, and then you really have a problem.

 

I think just about everybody who has worked with sensors for a while use brushes, not swabs, because swabs are hard to get just right; they are necesary if you get something caked or dried on the surface, but most of the time, the specialty sensor brushes work just fine. That thing about gas and inspecting with a 10x glass makes me think that they are talking about working in a lab, with the sensor out of the camera. I also suspect that this document was written by engineers working with lawyers to prevent warranty problems, and not by photographers.

 

This topic has been discussed extensively on Luminous Landscape. Look here:

 

Visible Dust Review

 

JC

[photolandscape]

In my brief experience before returning my M8 to Solms for other service issues, I learned that when it comes to spots on the sensor, there are dust spots (easily removed), and then there are other kinds of spots (not easily removed). I am convinced that my sensor arrived with tiny drops of machine oil or some sort of lubricant. I tried using a Visible Dust tool repeatedly, but did not want to start with wet cleaning, which some have suggested could void your warranty. Dust I can handle, but machine oil is an altogether different animal.

 

I used to have a Canon EOS-1Ds, and of course I had to clean its sensor frequently--try cleaning a digital camera sensor after a day shooting at the cremation ghats on the Ganges in Varanasi, India, or spending the day photographing the Pushkar Camel Fair (20,000+ camels on hand) in dusty Rajasthan. Both experiences make for a dirty sensor in no time if you're changing lenses.

[barjohn]

Thanks for the additional information. I looked for a more recent document but you will note that the Kodak sensor document references the cleaner one despite the time difference. And yes it does appear to be directed toward a lab. Note that they do not recommend Methanoyl which is the main ingredient in many of the formulations and instead recommend iso-propynol or ethy alcohol. I am neither a chemist nor an expert on lens cleaning so I will bow to those with more knowledge and experience.

[Artichoke]

blow around the mount before changing lenses

this was suggested to me with my first DSLR & it makes a difference

be certain the camera is powered off when changing lenses & of course try to do this in a relatively clean area with a minimum of time with a lens unmounted

dust rarely shows when shooting with a wide aperture, so to test for dust, stop down & shoot the sky ...the M8's sensor is much, much simpler to clean than with a DSLR, but still it is best to minimize the need for cleaning

[marknorton]

Always use lens caps and vacuum out the inside of your camera bag; it's a bit like barrier nursing, reduce the amount of "infection" which can make it into the camera.

 

Wet cleaning for the first time is a Rite of Passage. Once you've done it, it's fine; use a sensor swab which is damp not wet and wipe the sensor with one slow deliberate action. Do don't like the idiots at the food market do when they are swiping your card and think that the faster they do it, the better it is. Slow and steady is good.