k-hawinkler Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share #21 Posted June 20, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi 01af, Many thanks. Yes, my card looks exactly like the card in the jpg you referenced. Best, K-H. PS: What does this mean for the firmware update? I can't believe getting an older card is the correct thing to do? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Hi k-hawinkler, Take a look here M9 1.162 Firmware Bug (and/or just a broken M9)?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted June 20, 2011 Share #22 Posted June 20, 2011 Let's approach this rationally - if it is a firmware bug it should be the same on all cameras. The failure obviously happens inthe process of writing data to the card. The components are the camera-the firmware - the card. I tried to replicate it on a 16 Gb Ultra II. No success. So it may appear the card is the failing factor. One explanation is that the camera attempts to write to a bad sector and does not detect the failure, as it appears not check the result of the writing process (assumption!). I do not know how much such a feature would slow it down, so maybe it has to be left out (if it is). The complaints about SD card failure are too frequent here imo. Leica should try and make the camera more tolerant of deviations of the cards. It is too easy to point at card errors and counterfeits only, for all that being valid explanations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share #23 Posted June 20, 2011 Thinking a bit more about it they may have sent you the very latest Extreme card, where they dropped the 'III' branding. The 16gb Extreme III (Class 6), 16gb Extreme III (Class 10) and new Extreme 16gb are apparently all exactly the same card. Steve Steve, Many thanks. That's reassuring - provided you are correct. And I have no reason to doubt that. In that case, I smell a rat with regards to this problem and Leica's dealing with SDHC issues. Best, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share #24 Posted June 20, 2011 Let's approach this rationally - if it is a firmware bug it should be the same on all cameras. The failure obviously happens inthe process of writing data to the card. The components are the camera-the firmware - the card.I tried to replicate it on a 16 Gb Ultra II. No success. So it may appear the card is the failing factor. One explanation is that the camera attempts to write to a bad sector and does not detect the failure, as it appears not check the result of the writing process (assumption!). I do not know how much such a feature would slow it down, so maybe it has to be left out (if it is). The complaints about SD card failure are too frequent here imo. Leica should try and make the camera more tolerant of deviations of the cards. Jaap, Many thanks I agree. BTW, I observed this particular issue on my M9 only when saving DNG & JPG fine. I have not encountered it with just saving DNG. As always many thanks for your help. Could you please give me a pointer where to buy your card? Best, K-H. PS: Am I correct, your card isn't recommended in the LEICA M9 Anleitung / Instructions? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted June 20, 2011 Share #25 Posted June 20, 2011 k-hawinkler, the card, you use is NOT a Sandisk Extreme III card. Sandisk has unfortunately been a bit inconsistent in it's card naming between CF and SD cards with similar speeds. The old Sandisk Extreme III card is a slower speed card, than you class 10 Sandisk card (it is a class 6 card). When Sandisk introduced the fast 30MB/s class 10 CF cards, they were named Sandisk Extreme IV. The manufacturer never took over this naming for the equivalent SD cards. They are simply named "Sandisk Extreme" with the appropriate "class 10" logo and mostly with printed maximum card speeds. There are now also a variety of different Sandisk Extreme class 10 cards available (not only different sizes, but different labels with different pricing). A newer "video optimized" card with a small silver strip, slightly higher transfer speeds and much higher price (20-30%) than the older (~1 − 1 1/2 year older) Extreme class 10 cards has been introduced recently. it is getting difficult, to find the better priced "old" class 10 cards. I am very happy, to be able, to pick up ,original Sandisk class 10 cards in China than the extremely ridiculous priced same products in Europe. I was genuinely shocked, when I wanted to pick up a few spare cards in France a few days ago, which where priced @ about 200 − 300% of retail as the same product in China (yes, genuine Sandisk). I prefer the class 10 "Sandisk Extreme" cards over the class 6 "Extreme III" cards, as read time is a lot higher, when clearing a 8g or 16g card to the computer. Writing times from the camera are no different between the two cards with the M8.2, which I tested briefly, when I bought the M8.2 in 2010. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted June 20, 2011 Share #26 Posted June 20, 2011 Also keep in mind that memory cards are consumables that wear out with use and will eventually fail. Usually it will take several years of heavy use to wear out a memory card ... but with one odd sample or another it may happen earlier. Even reputable manufacturers produce the occasional lemon. So before blaming the camera or the new firmware, first thing to try is to replace the memory card. Maybe that will fix the issue. If it does then apply to SanDisk for a product replacement under warranty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted June 20, 2011 Share #27 Posted June 20, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) It's DNG+Jpeg Fine that you need to test, Sander I know Otto!. But I am off to Indonesia in a few weeks and do not wish to tempt fate. I am not interested in the DNG-JPG combo anyway. You are right though: that is where the problem may lie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share #28 Posted June 20, 2011 Hi Dirk, If I understand your point - it is - the SanDisk Extreme card should be just fine. Unless I have a faulty card - I obviously can't rule that out - there maybe a bug in the M9 firmware. Please, correct me if I misunderstood you. Vielen Dank, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share #29 Posted June 20, 2011 Also keep in mind that memory cards are consumables that wear out with use and will eventually fail. Usually it will take several years of heavy use to wear out a memory card ... but with one odd sample or another it may happen earlier. Even reputable manufacturers produce the occasional lemon. So before blaming the camera or the new firmware, first thing to try is to replace the memory card. Maybe that will fix the issue. If it does then apply to SanDisk for a product replacement under warranty. 01af, Thanks. Okay. So which card should I get? URL? May be the one recommended by Jaap, namely 16 Gb Ultra II? Best, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 20, 2011 Share #30 Posted June 20, 2011 Maybe - but a bug should show up in all cameras using those specific cards and settings. I am not recommending any cards just pointing out I have a number of them that never gave trouble on the M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share #31 Posted June 20, 2011 I would like to thank everybody for their input. This has been most clarifying and helpful for me. Hopefully I didn't offend anybody. If I did, I offer my sincerest apologies. What I will do is to continue using my card with saving DNG only. I also will not touch the scroll wheel for as long as the red LED blinks, indicating data is still being transferred after a shot. It will be interesting to see whether under those circumstances I still will encounter the above described problems. In any case, I should get several different by Leica recommended memory cards and find out how my M9 behaves. I would like to make sure my M9 works correctly before the warranty runs out later this year. Thanks again for all the help. Best, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted June 20, 2011 Share #32 Posted June 20, 2011 Hi Dirk, If I understand your point - it is - the SanDisk Extreme card should be just fine. Unless I have a faulty card - I obviously can't rule that out - there maybe a bug in the M9 firmware. Please, correct me if I misunderstood you. Vielen Dank, K-H. Yes, as I understand it, Leica is advising on using the older, slower "Extreme III" class 6 card, but I (and I have read others) do use the very sample of card, you mentioned (SanDisk Extreme class10 30MB/s 16GB) in both my M8.2 since over a year without any card issues and also since a few days in the M9 without any ill effects. There has so far only occurred twice a black frame with strange shutter cocking sound with my new M9, which is very likely attributed to a not normal shutter cocking/ firing, but not a card related issue. I would try, to rule out the card by trying other SanDisk "Extreme III" or SanDisk Extreme class10 cards. I would keep the size down (4 or 8 GB), I remember, I read a forum member reporting issues with 16 or 32 GB cards of the exact same type from his smaller cards (SanDisk), that reportedly worked without issues before, but didn't follow up on the issue. EDIT: this might be important: I use on both cameras DNG only, never write JPGs. I use on the M9 at the moment compressed DNG. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryp Posted June 20, 2011 Share #33 Posted June 20, 2011 earful,So, you got me curious what card I really have in the M9. On my invoice, 12/28/09 from B&H, it says: Item Description: SANDISK EXTREME III SDHC (30MB/S) 16GB SKU#: SAE3SD16GBC Item Price: 114.99 As you noted, your order included this: B&H # SAE3SD16GBC The code's digit "3" indicates it was the Extreme III card. From reading other forum entries, I see some are advising you the Extreme is new and faster than the Extreme III. This order is from December 2009 BTW. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted June 20, 2011 Share #34 Posted June 20, 2011 I tried shooting about 30 shots in DNG+jpeg/fine and they all wrote to the card fine, albeit it certainly takes a lot longer for it to happen than when I shoot my normal way, DNG only. FYI the card I used is a 2GB Kingston 120x from several years back. That may account for the slow write speeds, but I think should have exacerbated the issue if indeed there were a firmware bug, no? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Valdemar Posted June 20, 2011 Share #35 Posted June 20, 2011 I got my Sandisk Ultra 16gb brand new from J&R yesterday. Forget it, it cannot be used, you just get filenames, no images, then the camera crashes after taking 5 minutes or more to save one file. A Transcend Class 10 16gb and a no name "Top SD" 16gb from China all work fine. Interestingly, I find my old non-SDHC cards all work really fast and have no errors. I have a bunch of very ancient 2gb cards, including a "Coby" and other cheapos and all save files really fast with no errors. Old 2gb Ultra 2's also work fine. A new Class 4 Panasonic 16gb SD, also from J&R is a disaster. Errors galore, card self-erasing spontaneously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share #36 Posted June 20, 2011 Bocaburger, Not necessarily though. My suspicion is that when I take several shots in a row and start chimping right away by operating the scroll wheel, while the just taken images are still being stored, my M9 occasionally does not function as it is supposed to. I can't believe my memory card is really bad. I have taken many thousands of images and never encountered an image with a few bits obviously wrong. Of course, that doesn't prove anything. Best, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted June 20, 2011 Share #37 Posted June 20, 2011 My suspicion is that when I take several shots in a row and start chimping right away by operating the scroll wheel, while the just taken images are still being stored, my M9 occasionally does not function as it is supposed to. . Thats when mine seems to malfunction by very occasionally locking up. In my case I'm definitely putting it down to user error. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share #38 Posted June 20, 2011 M. Waldemar, Your experience suggests, same as Jaap's, to use older slower cards. Those seem to be more stable and function better in the M9. Go figure. Thanks, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted June 20, 2011 Author Share #39 Posted June 20, 2011 Thats when mine seems to malfunction by very occasionally locking up. In my case I'm definitely putting it down to user error. Steve Steve, Thanks. Why is that a user error? Where in the user manual is that activity outlawed? Best, K-H. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Valdemar Posted June 20, 2011 Share #40 Posted June 20, 2011 I was thinking that maybe the actual hardware in the M9 is screwy. I may be mistaken, but didn't the original M8 have an SD slot that could only read non SDHC cards? I think this was fixed with a firmware update. Is it possible they used the same circuit board with the M9, with the ancient card reader? A firmware fix, as opposed to an actual hardware update to the SD card reader in the camera, might account for all this trouble. Maybe the old SD hardware can't keep up with the new controllers in the latest cards. If this is true, shame on Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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