mjh Posted June 20, 2011 Share #421  Posted June 20, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Users can expect a functional upgrade over the older model. User can and may expect anything. That’s their prerogative. Expectations may not be met, though; that’s the vendor’s prerogative.  I really expect the new camera, to bring also some functional changes - otherwise, it would be not worth the buzz in my view. The buzz is created by users and mainly reflects their expectations. It’s all in the mind.  Whenever there are rumours about a new model, people start to fantasize, conjuring up some dream camera, only to be disappointed by whatever is actually introduced eventually. If you want your expectations to be realistic then try to think like Leica would – they are designing the cameras, not us users. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 20, 2011 Posted June 20, 2011 Hi mjh, Take a look here Leica M9-P ????. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
menos I M6 Posted June 20, 2011 Share #422  Posted June 20, 2011 User can and may expect anything. That’s their prerogative. Expectations may not be met, though; that’s the vendor’s prerogative.  The buzz is created by users and mainly reflects their expectations. It’s all in the mind.  Whenever there are rumours about a new model, people start to fantasize, conjuring up some dream camera, only to be disappointed by whatever is actually introduced eventually. If you want your expectations to be realistic then try to think like Leica would – they are designing the cameras, not us users.  Michael, I absolutely do ;-) there are no expectations in any unrealistic manner from my side (from what has been seen and from what I can expect, it will likely be a cosmetic update, similar to the M8.2 with very slight functional differences at most.).  To me, it plays a second roll now, as I have served my need already. I am still using my Nikon D3 (the old one, not the D3s). A new D4 is rumored, to be in schedule for the end of the year announcement and early 2012 availability.  Although this too leaves me rather could, it might hint at my personal, fully normal upgrade process of skipping one or two generations of any product, to benefit form a big technological leap, when finally upgrading.  I still run an "old" Macbook Pro as well, sitting time out, until the manufacturer gets a product sorted, filling my needs and providing a substantial upgrade for my working performance, time and cost saving.  A M10 sounds like a camera, I might skip given this track record, except, it will be my digital dream Leica, I so often recited:  - MP size - manual shutter cocking advance lever - not endless turning shutter speed dial - cloth shutter or more silenced 1/4000th metal shutter - no or optimized (bulk and rear controls wise) LCD screen - non Bayer B&W sensor - native ISO6400 - mechanical ISO selector with A position for Auto ISO and included exposure comp. dial (M7) - Vulcanite cover - black paint - no inscriptions on body, no dot - easily accessible, usable, lockable RF adjustment controls with provided precision tools, if even needed - battery and SD card bays through bottom plate as usual - additional "Leicavit D", which includes shutter cocking motor and selectable speeds I and II for continuous shooting - optional booster pack in size of Leicavit for triple the battery life than one standard battery, can be used stacked with "Leicavit D" or alone - weather sealing and straight repair policy from Leica (lenses remain the same, body includes water detector designs, to provide Leica Service an indicator, wether water ingress stems from lens mount or broken seals)  This weather sealing thing in fact is mostly a openly communicated policy change, rather a full weather sealing, which is apparently difficult with traditional Leica lenses without redesign of lenses and mount.  Despite all these ideas about what I would like to see in a future Leica M, I am perfectly happy with the film and digital Leica M cameras, I use and stay curious about where the journey goes from here, be it a Leica M9-P, M10 or a major new development ;-)  Oh and chrome looks nice actually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted June 20, 2011 Share #423 Â Posted June 20, 2011 IMO, the M9P will be purely cosmetic. Â But those cosmetic aspects may be viewed as functional to those who aren't thrilled with the possibility of a CMOS sensor and more "technologically" advanced MX or M10, or whatever Leica names the next M digital. Â Namely, a camera with a tougher finish and more scratch resistance LCD just in case they may want to keep the M9P camera, and are satisfied with the M9 IQ the way it is. Â -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 20, 2011 Share #424 Â Posted June 20, 2011 The question now is, is the M9-P a purely limited edition (sold with a Noctilux), or will it be available as a body only too? Â Now, who said that Leica would never produce another version of the film M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
guidomo Posted June 20, 2011 Share #425 Â Posted June 20, 2011 Quelle horreur! How unacceptable! Of course when it hits 2 1/2 it self-destructs! In the meantime it has had no firmware updates.... Â What's your point? The M9 is a great camera, but it will be overtaken technologically. When it came out people were wow'ed by FF but e.g. many expected the MAESTRO chip to feature, which it didn't. Â There's always room for improving a digital camera, and for me that's more than the body finish and the cover glass. These don't take the photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 20, 2011 Share #426  Posted June 20, 2011 What's your point? The M9 is a great camera, but it will be overtaken technologically. When it came out people were wow'ed by FF but e.g. many expected the MAESTRO chip to feature, which it didn't. Then you can feel the plight of Canon users who are stuck with an aging EOS-1Ds Mark III (3.5 years) or EOS 5D Mark II (2.5 years); the EOS-1D Mark IV is just two months younger than the M9 … (all three pretty fine cameras in their own way, despite their age)  Eventually Leica will come up with an M10. Maybe it will have a CMOS sensor, although it isn’t obvious which sensor it will be. Sony’s 24 MP sensor is a bit long in the tooth by now. There is Sony’s new ‘wonder sensor’ that’s in the Nikon D7000 and Pentax K-5, but that’s APS-C. Maybe Sony will get around to design another 36 x 24 mm sensor eventually. Then there’s the electronics; no doubt the M10 would need to get a MAESTRO CPU or maybe an even faster MAESTRO II (just speculating here). People have been clamouring for a higher resolution (which would also mean a larger) display, say 3" and 921,000 pixels at a minimum. That in turn would require a major redesign of the case, possibly along the lines of the Ti version, just without Ti. Maybe a redesign of the viewfinder mechanism would also be in order? Leica could take a cue from Fuji and create a viewfinder with electronically created frame lines. There would be just one set of frame lines visible at any time and it could match the actual field of view more closely. Who knows … But I doubt any of this will come to pass real soon. By next year’s photokina the M9 will be three years old, als old as the M8 was when it was replaced by the M9. That’s not a guarantee that there will be an M10 in 2012 but at least it is a more realistic perspective than to expect something groundbreakingly new in 2011. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 20, 2011 Share #427 Â Posted June 20, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) A Cmos would not make me quite happy, but would not surprise me. Not only do I suspect that with the current M9 sensor all quality juice has been pressed out of the CCD technology, or at least it has been lifted into the realm of diminishing returns, present-day troubles at Kodak may well inspire Leica to look elsewhere for safety's sake. A divorce from Kodak might give rise to CCD patent wrangles, so CMos would be an easy way out. Such a major change will not come very soon, or maybe? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted June 20, 2011 Share #428 Â Posted June 20, 2011 Hell, I'm still using a 1D Mark IIn. I've been waiting for a 1Ds Mark IV or a 5D I can stand to use for years... At this rate, Canon can go scratch. I've got an M9 and a Hassy CFV that blows the doors off Canon anyway. Might be time for a fire sale if they don't get their asses in gear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted June 20, 2011 Share #429 Â Posted June 20, 2011 Then you can feel the plight of Canon users who are stuck with an aging EOS-1Ds Mark III (3.5 years) or EOS 5D Mark II (2.5 years) My 5D2 delivers excellent images but could do with a better shutter (one hirer replaces them at 80k clicks regardless) lower noise, better robustness, weatherproofing ............ sound familiar? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted June 20, 2011 Share #430 Â Posted June 20, 2011 I was right ... cosmetic. Â But no black chrome ... black paint : -( Â Good news for Chrome lovers however! Â New lens ... you'll see tomorrow : -) Â -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted June 20, 2011 Share #431 Â Posted June 20, 2011 ... New lens ... you'll see tomorrow : -) 21/3.4? Â Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Negative Posted June 20, 2011 Share #432 Â Posted June 20, 2011 Meh. Whatever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted June 20, 2011 Share #433  Posted June 20, 2011 I was right ... cosmetic. But no black chrome ... black paint : -(  Good news for Chrome lovers however!  New lens ... you'll see tomorrow : -)  -Marc  Hi Marc How do you know you're right? (although cosmetic only would hardly be a surprise).  I always thought that black chrome was a dreary mistake - nice when new, but going gradually grey (rather like me I'm afraid!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted June 20, 2011 Share #434  Posted June 20, 2011 21/3.4? Pete. Hi Pete  You are not going to bed are you?  Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted June 20, 2011 Share #435  Posted June 20, 2011 Hi Pete You are not going to bed are you?  Noel  Hi Noel Of course he is . . . I am too. zzzzzzzzzzzzz  But sometimes the small things are the best things Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted June 21, 2011 Share #436 Â Posted June 21, 2011 A Cmos would not make me quite happy, but would not surprise me. Not only do I suspect that with the current M9 sensor all quality juice has been pressed out of the CCD technology, or at least it has been lifted into the realm of diminishing returns, present-day troubles at Kodak may well inspire Leica to look elsewhere for safety's sake. A divorce from Kodak might give rise to CCD patent wrangles, so CMos would be an easy way out. Such a major change will not come very soon, or maybe? Â I suspect what you say is exactly the two issues at hand. Â Kodak has to have given Leica fits ... cracked sensor filters and all that. And the technology juggernaut is probably going to inevitably force going to a CMOS sensor to provide the techno-addicted what they want, and thus sell more M digital cameras to a broader audience. Â Which is why I mentioned that this M9P may be the last chance to get a keeper CCD M9 with a chrome finish and harder LCD cover to weather the initial venture into a M CMOS ... which introduces a world of technology that will change so fast that the next M digital will be "out-dated" before it even arrives. For me, that's okay with my Sony's @ $2,500., but an outdated CMOS M @ $7,000.+ a pop is another matter. It all makes you get real about what you have in hand as opposed to what might be. Â -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted June 21, 2011 Share #437 Â Posted June 21, 2011 Hi MarcHow do you know you're right? (although cosmetic only would hardly be a surprise). Â I always thought that black chrome was a dreary mistake - nice when new, but going gradually grey (rather like me I'm afraid!). Â Because I always know ... LOL! I even know how much it is : -) But the stats are embargoed until today at 1PM. Â Don't agree with your black chrome observation ... much tougher finish for vigorous use, and in the age of digital the camera would be a paper-weight before the graying-out ever happened. My M7s never grayed in the years I owned them ... the last one that did that was a M6. Â The notion that black paint is sexy is more a fondlers delight IMO, it gets too greasy when you're working hard, and the "faux experienced look" of brassing is cool until you go to sell the camera ... then it's not so "cool" : -( Â Different strokes for different folks I guess. Â -Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted June 21, 2011 Share #438  Posted June 21, 2011 Because I always know ... LOL! I even know how much it is : -) But the stats are embargoed until today at 1PM. Don't agree with your black chrome observation ... much tougher finish for vigorous use, and in the age of digital the camera would be a paper-weight before the graying-out ever happened. My M7s never grayed in the years I owned them ... the last one that did that was a M6.  The notion that black paint is sexy is more a fondlers delight IMO, it gets too greasy when you're working hard, and the "faux experienced look" of brassing is cool until you go to sell the camera ... then it's not so "cool" : -(  Different strokes for different folks I guess.  -Marc  How lucky you are to always know - I'm always floundering around in the dark - it's my children who KNOW!  As for the black chrome - maybe it was different on the M8, but my M8 was definitely grey when it got moved on - not sure how many actuations, but it was certainly well used, unscratched and undinged to be sure, but definitely gray.  My black paint M8/M9 is now just over 2 years old, and it does certainly look it, but I still kind of like it, but I'm not going to sell that one anyway (it's been besmirched by having my name on it). I don't really think of it becoming a paperweight - as long as it works it should still take good photos, I feel we've quietly got to the point where digital cameras really don't need to become paperweights.  all the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruniroquai Posted June 21, 2011 Share #439 Â Posted June 21, 2011 when is the event? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 21, 2011 Share #440 Â Posted June 21, 2011 17:00 CET Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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