Regret Purchase of M9 after 2nd service.

[Dabow]

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If you want a SHOW PONY BUY A LEICA, LEICA'S LOOK LOVELY IN CABINETS.

 

IF YOU PREFER A WORK HORSE THEN CHOOSE SOMETHING ELSE.

 

Cheers.

 

I guess with a statement this absurd you have to shout to try and hide the distinct lack of truth in it

 

Good luck trying to get the same level of image quality out of your G9 as you would from a Leica. But perhaps that's of no concern to you.

[MikeD700]

Show the real figures.

 

If Leica's are so reliable, why is there so much moaning going on on this site (taking into account the minute sales figures of Leica's)? You certainly don't see that in other brand dedicated user sites.

[bill]

Buyer's remorse...

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Dabow]

Show the real figures.

 

If Leica's are so reliable, why is there so much moaning going on on this site (taking into account the minute sales figures of Leica's)? You certainly don't see that in other brand dedicated user sites.

 

Higher expectations given brand reputation and cost. Plus I don't believe your statement is accurate in the slightest. I've seen plenty of Canon and Nikon users venting their equipment issues in forums.

[Tibicen]

Show the real figures.

 

If Leica's are so reliable, why is there so much moaning going on on this site (taking into account the minute sales figures of Leica's)? You certainly don't see that in other brand dedicated user sites.

 

If you are on a mission, reopen a new thread and be happy. Besides, a forum is a place to discuss problems, so what do you expect? Lots of people stating that their camera is working perfect?

Leica users are simply concerned about their cameras because most of them have a very special relation to them. I assure you, as I own a 5DII as well, there are lots of problems with other brands, too. There are of course no figures, it's only your own wishful thinking.

 

If Leica is so unreliable I'm astounded to see pictures from Antarctica, Sahara, Himalaya and other places with beastly conditions. Yes of course: They all did the pictures with Nikons and faked them as Leica...

But go on. I don't think I will change your mind. But don't expect people to keep quiet about polemic comments like yours. Sorry I hit the roof...and by the way: All this is completely off topic.

 

Regards,

 

Claus

[lykaman]

Well now, if one affords a Leica we do expect quality of manufacture, reliability & of course

the Leica Look if we are using Leica lenses..but this is not a dream world.. Anything built can and sometimes does go wrong.. We all cannot afford a Rolls Royce, they have service departments! more old RR are on the road %wise than any other vehicle.. Even Ferraris need TLC.. So my point, some jealousy might be creeping in, I did envy Leica users before I joined the Leica owners club.. & no doubt my thoughts were to promote my Canon EOS (35mm) as the BeSt..

A Leica is only as good as the photographer, using a Leica just tends to in my opinion bring out the very best in any photographer..........Whatever you use, your images tell the truth about your photographic expertise.....As always it’s up to you...

[jamesk8752]

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Show the real figures.

 

If Leica's are so reliable, why is there so much moaning going on on this site (taking into account the minute sales figures of Leica's)? You certainly don't see that in other brand dedicated user sites.

 

I have to call BS on this. Spend a little time in the DSLR forums on DPReview; the whining and complaining makes these Leica forums sound tame. One reason I prefer to hang out here...

 

Regards, Jim

[jaapv]

Show the real figures.

 

If Leica's are so reliable, why is there so much moaning going on on this site (taking into account the minute sales figures of Leica's)? You certainly don't see that in other brand dedicated user sites.

What sites would that be? The ones I know follow the Internet custom of loud complaints.

[jaapv]

I guess with a statement this absurd you have to shout to try and hide the distinct lack of truth in it

 

Good luck trying to get the same level of image quality out of your G9 as you would from a Leica. But perhaps that's of no concern to you.

Don't be too hard on Hamey - if Colonel Sanders is the pinnacle of your culinary ambitions, you will be acutely unhappy in a three-star Michelin restaurant.

[AlanG]

I'm still trying to understand the lug failure. I guess it is simply a fluke situation where the screws were not tightened to spec.or were missing the Locktite if they use that or something similar. Since it is so rare an occurrence, it seems to me that Leica should be embarrassed enough by it to fix the additional damage to the lens without charge or comment. And they would also make sure this can't happen again.

 

I can't recall ever hearing about lug failures before, but I do recall seeing some lugs that were very warn through to the point that they probably should be replaced in order to prevent failure. I did also see mention of failure on a GH-1 and on that one X-1.I searched the web and found the BosStrap camera strap company reporting this:

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

During the development of the BosStrap, more than 60 pounds were suspended from one camera strap lug to determine it’s capabilities under high loads. Sixty pound was chosen because it is about 10 times the weight of a professional camera with 70-200 mm f/2.8 lens. No failures occurred.

 

I consulted with experienced (over 30 years) repair technicians as to failure modes of the lugs they have seen. They never experienced a failure (actual separation of the strap lug from the camera body), but, very rarely, the post type lug developed some rotational play due to excessive torque imposed through the triangular split rings. The flexible BosTail serves in part to completely eliminate any possibility of torque loads on the camera strap lug.

[MarkP]

Thank you Jim & Yaap. Exactly what I was trying to get across in my second point (#79 above). These internet blog sites are THE place for people to whinge ad-nauseum.

 

Both our Subaru and Merc have their problems, and need repairs and servicing. So what!

 

Mark.

[ho_co]

I'm still trying to understand the lug failure....

I'm wondering if it could be due to the cracking of the housing alloy, as was reported a couple times on the forum. We're definitely lacking information.

[barjohn]

A couple of legal notes as they apply to the USA since Bill seems to think that statement on the warranty card carries any legal weight. Suppose your car company wrote in the warranty that they are not responsible for any consequential damage and your brakes fail due to a manufacturing defect and you kill someone. Do you really think that statement in their warranty card will carry any legal weight? There are plenty of rich lawyers that could easily disprove that one.

 

Second, most people are not aware of the legal power they have in Small Claims Courts in the US. In many states you can sue up to as much as $10K and in many at least $5K. As long as the company does business in your state you can drag them into Small Claims court. It costs very little, typically a $25 filing fee, and getting a third party to provide service (usually the sheriff's department will do it in the county where the company has offices for around $25). It costs the company a great deal more than providing the service they should have in the first place to defend themselves and they lose far more often than they win. The only down side for the consumer is when the loss exceeds the Small Claims limit.

[ChristopherGrant]

I'm still trying to understand the lug failure. I guess it is simply a fluke situation where the screws were not tightened to spec.or were missing the Locktite if they use that or something similar. Since it is so rare an occurrence, it seems to me that Leica should be embarrassed enough by it to fix the additional damage to the lens without charge or comment. And they would also make sure this can't happen again.

 

I can't recall ever hearing about lug failures before, but I do recall seeing some lugs that were very warn through to the point that they probably should be replaced in order to prevent failure. I did also see mention of failure on a GH-1 and on that one X-1.I searched the web and found the BosStrap camera strap company reporting this:

 

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

During the development of the BosStrap, more than 60 pounds were suspended from one camera strap lug to determine it’s capabilities under high loads. Sixty pound was chosen because it is about 10 times the weight of a professional camera with 70-200 mm f/2.8 lens. No failures occurred.

 

I consulted with experienced (over 30 years) repair technicians as to failure modes of the lugs they have seen. They never experienced a failure (actual separation of the strap lug from the camera body), but, very rarely, the post type lug developed some rotational play due to excessive torque imposed through the triangular split rings. The flexible BosTail serves in part to completely eliminate any possibility of torque loads on the camera strap lug.

 

Alan: This was surprising to me as well. The Lugs are held to the body with 2 screws,

both of which appeared to be fine, no stress, bends, cracks, etc... They simply seemed

to have worked themselves from the body. What is surprising to me is there was no

warning. If they slowly 'unscrewed' themselves then I would've imagined I'd have noticed

beforehand. I can only surmise they literally slipped out of the sockets.

[bill]

... Since it is so rare an occurrence, it seems to me that Leica should be embarrassed enough by it to fix the additional damage to the lens without charge or comment.

 

...and thus establish a precedent. They would be mad to do so.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[hydeca]

Wow this thread is still festering! I'm bored with it. I've been in Melbourne for a few days so it has been a good opportunity to visit a Leica dealer that actually carries stock unlike NZ dealers.

 

Bought one of those neoprene bags for the M9 when it arrives back from Solms with a new shutter assembly.. an aftermarket lens hood for the Summarit 50... and some film stock for the trusty never-say-die M6 TTL (I love that camera).

 

I read some other thread today that titans have all sold; incorrect.. there's a new one for sale in its box at Camera Lane, Little Bourke Street, Melbourne 3000, Australia. So if anyone wants a titanium encrusted body and 'lux 35 and has cash to spare there's your opportunity.. the shop owner's a decent guy.

 

To be honest I don't get the point of a titan... but if it spins your dial for the dollars then all power to you.

[hydeca]

It's a good thing I'am not buying Leica gear anymore.

 

My Canon G9 is now 3 years old and has never let me down, touch wood.

However my freind has a G9 also, it failed after 3 years went to Canon in Sydney for repairs, week later returned, price 250 $, good as new.

 

If you want a SHOW PONY BUY A LEICA, LEICA'S LOOK LOVELY IN CABINETS.

 

IF YOU PREFER A WORK HORSE THEN CHOOSE SOMETHING ELSE.

 

Cheers.

 

GOOD FOR YOU... HOPE YOUR G9 SHOTS OF LEICAS IN CABINETS ARE WINNING PLENTY OF AWARDS... sheesh

[Paulus]

Higher expectations given brand reputation and cost. Plus I don't believe your statement is accurate in the slightest. I've seen plenty of Canon and Nikon users venting their equipment issues in forums.

 

I see plenty of Nikon and Canon user who sell their cameras within the year! A friend of mine makes a fortune out of it. I wonder why they do that? Not satisfied?

[Guido]

I see plenty of Nikon and Canon user who sell their cameras within the year! A friend of mine makes a fortune out of it. I wonder why they do that? Not satisfied?

Maybe because Nikon/Canon churn out new models so frequently?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Paulus]

Thanks all for the replies. Just to reiterate:

 

What I don't expect:

1. For them to completely service the 35mm lens that was 'lightly

damaged' (cosmetic only).

 

What I do expect to be fixed or have worked to begin with:

1. Back dial behaving erratically to the point of being unable to use (fixed now)

2. Shutter dial occasionally giving wrong input (in service)

3. LED light in viewfinder out (in service)

4. Strap 'lug' coming out with no warning (in service).

5. Them to calibrate the camera to the 35mm lens that was dropped with #4 issue

in order to assure it wasn't sent out of whack. At the very least inspect the lens

within reason.

5. Faster service than 2 months of 12 (as of roughly today with at least 1 week to go)

without some sort of compensation.

 

So I don't believe we should argue back and forth too much here, and try to

treat this as just information for others to make their own decisions. I will write

once more when the camera is back with finals details of the service.

 

 

 

I remember Christopher, that when my M8 didn't work right with a new bought( non 6 -bit ) 90mm Elmarit- M. Leica did everything to make them work together. They even replaced the bayonet by a 6-bit in order to get the combination working. They asked me to sent all my lenses too and 6-bitted them for half the price ( € 45, a piece ). Still the combination didn't work as it should, so I could trade it at my dealer for another lens.

 

When I bought my first M6 Titan the shutter broke down in a week. Leica replaced the shutter without one word of excuse. ( Why should they, things like that can happen. )

When it was impossible to put a 135mm on the M6 Titan, because it just wouldn't fit ( something to do with the bayonet button ) they just replaced the bayonet button. No excuses.

 

Why should they, things like that can happen. But when for the third time my M6 titan broke down, ( Rewind knob came off ) Leica sent me a very nice photo book. (" Statt Blumen" it was written in the letter they sent with it . =" Instead of flowers " ) as an excuse for all the things which went wrong with this camera.

 

Only the thing is: All those things happened within the warranty period. They did not pay back any ruined films. They showed some " coulance" by offering me to 6-bit all my lenses half price ( no warranty on those lenses left ! ) and sent me a book, to excuse for the bad luck.

 

I don't know how much I had to thank my dealer for what they did. I suppose it can make some difference.

 

My idea is, just to write that you had a lot of bad luck. And if they please would service your lens without a hassle and that you will pay for the expenses. But also ask them if an excuse for the lug isn't in place and that you expect flowers for the inconvenience.

 

You might be surprised.

 

Maybe they will mend the lens for half the costs.