otto.f Posted May 30, 2011 Share #101 Â Posted May 30, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Wonder if there will be this same level of emotion when Leica drops the "S" system in several years "because the technology curve has been so steep that a small company like Leica can't compete well with the 40-50 megabyte sensors that Canon and Nikon use in there $4000 SLR bodies"? Oh yes, we will have a path someday for those loyal red dot customers who mortgaged the house to buy "S" lenses. Â Not if Leica limits itself to this set of 4 S-lenses in the middle range Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 30, 2011 Posted May 30, 2011 Hi otto.f, Take a look here Why did Leica drop their R-clients so unceremoniously?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
janki Posted June 1, 2011 Share #102  Posted June 1, 2011 Wonder if there will be this same level of emotion when Leica drops the "S" system in several years "because the technology curve has been so steep that a small company like Leica can't compete well with the 40-50 megabyte sensors that Canon and Nikon use in there $4000 SLR bodies"? Oh yes, we will have a path someday for those loyal red dot customers who mortgaged the house to buy "S" lenses.  It might be of interest to get to know a little bit about the situation around the S-system.  Have the decision not going for a FF DSLR camera system to the advantage of a medium-format DSLR system, so far, been a happy choice for Leica?  It is claimed that the R-system was never profitable. Will the S-system have a view to be profitable, ever?  Are there now gradually available reports about how the S-system really works under the punishing treatment in the field?  I've had the great pleasure of seeing Albert’s S2 image series from the Antarctic! LFI Gallery - Antarctica :)  Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 1, 2011 Share #103 Â Posted June 1, 2011 Wonder if there will be this same level of emotion when Leica drops the "S" system in several years "because the technology curve has been so steep that a small company like Leica can't compete well with the 40-50 megabyte sensors that Canon and Nikon use in there $4000 SLR bodies"? Oh yes, we will have a path someday for those loyal red dot customers who mortgaged the house to buy "S" lenses. Â Well the Leica reflex system was in production for nearly 50 years, so if they drop the S in 2061 I doubt many of us will be around to complain! Â The R had run it's course, Leica chose not to compete in the '35mm' DSLR market which would have required a much greater volume of units and wider range of lenses than for the S system. Â Let it rest, move on. And I speak as an R user myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted June 2, 2011 Share #104 Â Posted June 2, 2011 Just as a reminder, when the R system (Leicaflex, as it was known then) was introduced in 1964, it only had 5 dedicated lenses available through the first 4-5 years of existence. Â 35 f/2.8, 50 f/2, 90 f/2.8, 135 f/2.8 - and a non-ttl 21 f/3.4 borrowed from the M system. Â Some longer Visoflex lenses could be adapted - if one wanted to deal with manual aperture stop-down. Â 1968 ( a year of Olympics and American politics) was the first big year for growing the R-mount lens line: 400 5.6, 560 f/5.6, 180 f/2.8, a 21 that could be used with the main viewfinder. After that, the lens line grew in spurts of 2-4 lenses every couple of years. Â So the slow development of the S lens lineup is about how Leica always begins new systems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posto 6 Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share #105 Â Posted June 2, 2011 Let us hope, for Leica's sake, that there are not too many parallels between the Leicaflex/R's introduction, development and profitability and that of the S2. Â As an aside, I recently tried an S2, but really did find it limiting. Slow lenses and rather a lot of bulk-but then I suppose I speak as a 35mm user. But it did have a wonderful bright and clear viewfinder....pity it was not an R10! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted June 2, 2011 Share #106 Â Posted June 2, 2011 A white elephant may make an excellent pet, but it is not good for a commercial company. Â Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posto 6 Posted June 2, 2011 Author Share #107 Â Posted June 2, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sorry Noel- are you referring to the S2 (hopefully not, for Leica's sake) or my joke on the R10? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dachs Posted June 2, 2011 Share #108 Â Posted June 2, 2011 stone me you guys know a lot! Do I save up for an S2 or not (the big system cams are definitely out of reach - cleverly the S2 is around 2/3rds of the cheaper Hass' E equivalents, allowing the different but still highly adequate sensor size) Â Next question, has the little factory at Solms overstretched itself, even with Portugal and Canada plus Panasonic for the litle dig cams, that is a big product range for a tiny place, and their factory sign is wonky too, not a good 'sign' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuny Posted June 2, 2011 Share #109 Â Posted June 2, 2011 dachs - Â Can't say whether the S2 is right for you until we know how you would use it. In my case I'm addicted to zoom lenses and who knows if they will make any for the S2. Additionally, for wildlife a long zoom would be exceptionally large. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 3, 2011 Share #110 Â Posted June 3, 2011 The majority of buyers of the S2 don't need it, they're amateurs, why they want to spend so much on a camera system that is way beyond what they'll ever use or need in terms of image quality is beyond me, when an M8 is already more than good enough for them. Â But then the same type of people buy Ferrari's to drive in the city. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted June 3, 2011 Share #111  Posted June 3, 2011 The majority of buyers of the S2 don't need it, they're amateurs, why they want to spend so much on a camera system that is way beyond what they'll ever use or need in terms of image quality is beyond me, when an M8 is already more than good enough for them. But then the same type of people buy Ferrari's to drive in the city.  The majority of any camera buyers are buying much more than they need. An M8 is overkill for almost everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted June 3, 2011 Share #112 Â Posted June 3, 2011 The majority of any camera buyers are buying much more than they need. An M8 is overkill for almost everyone. Â Any 10+Mp camera could be overkill for most but if you want 50mm lens to be 50mm lens than M8 is underkill. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roydonian Posted June 3, 2011 Share #113 Â Posted June 3, 2011 The logic behind the decision to drop the R series was discussed during the October 2010 LHSA meeting with Stefan Daniel. As I have explained elsewhere on this forum, I did not make notes of the meeting, and not being an R user did not take an active part in the discussion. However, to the best of my recollection, the explanation he gave was as follows: Â Studies of the economics of the R10 had shown that the likely pricetag of the camera was so high that it would have been uncompetitive in the market already dominated by Canon and Nikon. As a result, most sales would probably have been to those members of the existing R-series community who wanted to move from film to digital, the company believed. The project would have required a major financial investment but was never going to sell enough cameras to be worthwhile. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 3, 2011 Share #114 Â Posted June 3, 2011 dachs -Â Can't say whether the S2 is right for you until we know how you would use it. In my case I'm addicted to zoom lenses and who knows if they will make any for the S2. Additionally, for wildlife a long zoom would be exceptionally large. Having used a 645 (film) camera for wildlife, I would certainly advise against MF, if you want any form of mobility. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
berndr Posted June 3, 2011 Share #115 Â Posted June 3, 2011 In my opinion my R solution will come in the next month and it is called Sony NEX 7 (APS-C) or NEX 9 (FF) coming next year. Â Kind regards, Bernd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 3, 2011 Share #116  Posted June 3, 2011 The majority of buyers of the S2 don't need it, they're amateurs, why they want to spend so much on a camera system that is way beyond what they'll ever use or need in terms of image quality is beyond me, when an M8 is already more than good enough for them. But then the same type of people buy Ferrari's to drive in the city.  I take it you can not afford a Ferrari.People do what they want with their own money.If the camera companies relied on the pro market they would not have a business. Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 3, 2011 Share #117  Posted June 3, 2011 I take it you can not afford a Ferrari.People do what they want with their own money.If the camera companies relied on the pro market they would not have a business.Brian  Well, I could afford a Ferrari if I gave up a lot of other luxuries, or sold my home. But I really don't want one that badly. Actually I don't want one at all.  I don't want to buy a tractor, or a HGV lorry either, but if I was a farmer, or long haul freight driver, I probably would. Likewise if I was a pro fashion photographer I would probably need/buy a camera like the S2.  I agree people do what they want with their money. The boxer Chris Eubanks does happen to drive a HGV as his personal transport. As you say, people do what they want with their money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveYork Posted June 4, 2011 Share #118 Â Posted June 4, 2011 Having used a 645 (film) camera for wildlife, I would certainly advise against MF, if you want any form of mobility. Â Isn't that what porters are for? Or your children? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted June 4, 2011 Share #119 Â Posted June 4, 2011 Isn't that what porters are for? Or your children? Â Porters are not that fast as autofocus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 4, 2011 Share #120 Â Posted June 4, 2011 You have clearly not met Lupin. Â Regards, Â Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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