biswasg Posted April 22, 2011 Share #1 Posted April 22, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I will be going to a Camera store tomorrow which has a used Leica M8 for sale. The offer price seems reasonable. Any suggestions on what to look for on the physical and functional inspection at the store before I buy it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 22, 2011 Posted April 22, 2011 Hi biswasg, Take a look here Evaluating a Second-hand M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
otto.f Posted April 22, 2011 Share #2 Posted April 22, 2011 What happens exactly if you push the button, do you need to push deep before it fires, or does respond it quickly? How does it operate in C mode? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted April 22, 2011 Share #3 Posted April 22, 2011 biswasg, if you have no previous experience of Leica M cameras, try and take a knowledgeable friend with you. It is better if the dealer is a specialist Leica dealer because that confers a level of knowledge and integrity which can give you confidence. Also, such a dealer is likely to offer you some form of warranty, typically six months. That gives you peace of mind and certain risks are underwritten for you. Failing all that advice, use your common sense and instincts. Operation should be silky smooth and precise. Exercise all shutter speeds and lens aperture settings. Ask if you can try the camera in shop with your own SD card. Include a shot of a plain sky or equivalent plain area so that you can examine images at 100% to check for a clean sensor. Ask to be shown how to read the number of shutter actuations in the metadata. Try focusing at close range at maximum lens aperture to check for focusing accuracy. Well, there are a few suggestions for you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeicaMSeattle Posted April 22, 2011 Share #4 Posted April 22, 2011 Physical appearance, look for signs of use and possible abuse in the form of gouges, nicks, and deep scratches. A camera that has not seen a lot of use should be clean of dust and oils with no wear of the camera's finish at the edges and corners of the body. The camera's base plate should look new, the protective film on the bottom should be pristine free of bubbling and lifting around the edges. The protective lens over the LCD should be clear and free of all but the finest of scratches if any. A pristine camera should have no scratches. Again verify metadata figures for total number of shutter actuations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
piblondin Posted April 23, 2011 Share #5 Posted April 23, 2011 I would check for back- or front-focus with the lens you plan to use along with rangefinder alignment--do the two images line up vertically and horizontally when in focus? do they line up when focusing at infinity at a star or something else very far away--and vertical banding at high ISOs. For the latter, set the ISO to 2500 and take a couple shots with the lens cap on. Do you see lines of blue or red pixels when you look at the resulting images on a computer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted April 23, 2011 Share #6 Posted April 23, 2011 Ask the seller if there are any problems with rangefinder alignment and if he says "No." ask him to explain how he knows. Btw, if you put a lens on the M8, and look through the viewfinder at a distant object (at least a kilometre away) then the images should overlap perfectly. If they don't then the rangefinder needs adjustment. If he can't or won't explain how he knows the rangefinder is correctly adjusted then this is a good opportunity to shave something off the price in case your rangefinder needs adjusting because you're likely to be very disappointed with the M8 if the rangefinder is off and it's not cheap to have done. A rangefinder that's off is often an indication that the M8 may have been dropped and other components inside may have been damaged. If he says "I don't know." then ask him to test it in the shop by taking a picture with a fast lens wide open and near its closest focus distance and view the enlarged photo on a computer screen. If the centre of the photo is soft then it's an indication that the rangefinder might need adjustment. If he can't or won't let you check rangefinder adjustment then, again, ask for a discount off the price or for the warranty to cover rangefinder adjustment. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biswasg Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share #7 Posted April 23, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks for all your inputs. I examined the camera today. It was fine as far as external body, viewfinder and the shutter release button. However, when I inserted my SD card, the M8 failed to format the card. The seller, who is a Leica dealer also could not format a brand new card. He said he will upload the latest firmware and let me know if it is OK or not. I am wondering how serious can this software problem be. Should I forget about this camera even the seller should be able to correct the error through firmware update? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtorrents Posted April 23, 2011 Share #8 Posted April 23, 2011 Probably the camera has an old firmware unable to read/write SDHC cards. If you use a SD card, it will be fine. Or better, update to latest firmware and you could use SDHC cards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted April 23, 2011 Share #9 Posted April 23, 2011 Leica has a list on its site what brands of SD-cards they recommend, not exactly all the brands are found good enough; was it a new SD-card that you used or did you use it on another camera first? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biswasg Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share #10 Posted April 23, 2011 Leica has a list on its site what brands of SD-cards they recommend, not exactly all the brands are found good enough; was it a new SD-card that you used or did you use it on another camera first? First I used the Sandisk Ultra 4GB SDHC card which had been used in a CanonG-11. The seller then tried a Sandisk Ultra 8 GB SDHC card. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted April 23, 2011 Share #11 Posted April 23, 2011 It'll be a firmware matter indeed, I guess. By the way, it is not uncommon to use it for a day before you buy it, with Leica-stuff. Take your time and at least first analyze the photo's at home Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted April 23, 2011 Share #12 Posted April 23, 2011 Check that the rangefinder is vertically aligned. When you focus the two figures in the patch must be perfectly aligned. Vertical misalignement is a common problem on rangefinder cameras. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted April 24, 2011 Share #13 Posted April 24, 2011 The first check, I do, when looking at a second hand M8 is, to check for a vertical line issue, as this could potentially mean a longer trip to Leica Solms for repair for a cost. This is easy to test, best with bringing a notebook, to check downloaded images on the spot. Shoot a few images at highest ISO speed (the issue appears more serious in underexposed images, which is why some people test this with shooting a long time exposure with the lens cap on). Inspect the images on the computer, if a vertical red pixel line appears in the images. You can also check, if both sensor halves are exposing significantly different, when underexposing. I would not buy a second hand M8 with red line problem without an agreement over possible repair costs for the issue. If the issue shows, it will get worse in time. There is no "I don't use ISO2500 and will properly expose my images." At some point, it will get to you, and you have to take care of the issue within your image files (there are software tools, to repair files with known pixel issues). - check the rangefinder, as mentioned. - check the USB port of the camera (is it working?) - check the camera with your SD cards, if it works reliably after the firmware has been updated - check if the reader of the lens data works properly (mount a coded lens, fire a few shots and inspect the EXIF data for lens information - lens name and focal length will be recorded, aperture only estimated, don't worry) - check for signs of drops - lens mount tight?, any dings?, dents?, does the bottom plate fit easily? - ask the dealer, to hand you a flash, or bring your own compatible unit and test the camera with a flash up to 1/180 - Check the LCD screen for a brownish shadow under the LCD cover glass, mostly appearing outside, if it appears (it is often called "coffee stain issue" - google it, to find images, how it looks). If everything is fine, enjoy your new M8 ;-) It is a very fine camera! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikenic Posted April 24, 2011 Share #14 Posted April 24, 2011 I think the first thing I would look for (apart from obvious damage) is a comprehensive and long warranty. Then come here and soak yourself in all the information available. Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpalme Posted April 25, 2011 Share #15 Posted April 25, 2011 The first check, I do, when looking at a second hand M8 is, to check for a vertical line issue, as this could potentially mean a longer trip to Leica Solms for repair for a cost. This is easy to test, best with bringing a notebook, to check downloaded images on the spot. Shoot a few images at highest ISO speed (the issue appears more serious in underexposed images, which is why some people test this with shooting a long time exposure with the lens cap on). Inspect the images on the computer, if a vertical red pixel line appears in the images. You can also check, if both sensor halves are exposing significantly different, when underexposing. I would not buy a second hand M8 with red line problem without an agreement over possible repair costs for the issue. If the issue shows, it will get worse in time. There is no "I don't use ISO2500 and will properly expose my images." At some point, it will get to you, and you have to take care of the issue within your image files (there are software tools, to repair files with known pixel issues). - check the rangefinder, as mentioned. - check the USB port of the camera (is it working?) - check the camera with your SD cards, if it works reliably after the firmware has been updated - check if the reader of the lens data works properly (mount a coded lens, fire a few shots and inspect the EXIF data for lens information - lens name and focal length will be recorded, aperture only estimated, don't worry) - check for signs of drops - lens mount tight?, any dings?, dents?, does the bottom plate fit easily? - ask the dealer, to hand you a flash, or bring your own compatible unit and test the camera with a flash up to 1/180 - Check the LCD screen for a brownish shadow under the LCD cover glass, mostly appearing outside, if it appears (it is often called "coffee stain issue" - google it, to find images, how it looks). If everything is fine, enjoy your new M8 ;-) It is a very fine camera! My self coded 28 ASPH shows just 28mm ... should it show any other specific lens info? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert N Posted April 25, 2011 Share #16 Posted April 25, 2011 In the Exif data, the only reported information on the lens are: - Max Aperture Value - Focal Length Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 25, 2011 Share #17 Posted April 25, 2011 I think the first thing I would look for (apart from obvious damage) is a comprehensive and long warranty... +1 and a pro dealer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted April 26, 2011 Share #18 Posted April 26, 2011 In the Exif data, the only reported information on the lens are:- Max Aperture Value - Focal Length That would not be correct, as in Adobe Lightroom, the reported 6bit code of the used lens is interpreted and states the exact name and model of the used lens, not just the focal length and maximum aperture available. I might be wrong on terminology, but the information is there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted April 26, 2011 Share #19 Posted April 26, 2011 That would not be correct, as in Adobe Lightroom, the reported 6bit code of the used lens is interpreted and states the exact name and model of the used lens, not just the focal length and maximum aperture available... Interesting indeed. I thought there weren't anything else than aperture and focal length in the exif data. Do you know if Lightroom recognizes different lenses of same aperture and focal length? 35/2 IV vs 35/2 asph or 50/2 III vs 50/2 IV for example? If so you must be right i guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted April 26, 2011 Share #20 Posted April 26, 2011 Interesting indeed. I thought there weren't anything else than aperture and focal length in the exif data. Do you know if Lightroom recognizes different lenses of same aperture and focal length? 35/2 IV vs 35/2 asph or 50/2 III vs 50/2 IV for example? If so you must be right i guess. I suppose, as long, as there is a specific code to the different versions of a lens, this code is interpreted by Lightroom. I only have lenses of same focal length and different aperture: a 35 Lux ASPH v1, and I still keep a 35 Cron ASPH for some unknown reason. Both are properly recognized with their full name in Lightroom. I am not experienced with the lens database in the M9, as to how specific same focal length lenses of different versions are separated. There must be coded the Leica lens code somewhere in the file (beyond the obvious focal length and max aperture in the exif data). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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