I want to test the Leica waters... starting with the R series. Advice on what to get?

[sweetoleander]

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Leica have always been the Holy Grail of cameras for me, and I've decided I want to get my hands on an old R. I've been looking through KEH for them. I've come across R5s, R7s, and R8s, and I want an opinion on which one would be best to get. Also, with their selection of lenses, or at least a lens around 300USD that would be suitable for an all around lens, or a wide/ultra wide angle. I'm a complete newcomer to Leica, I would appreciate any assistance.

Leica R lens at KEH: Leica R Fixed Focal Length Lenses - KEH.com

[wildlightphoto]

Short answer: R8 and late-model 50mm Summicron-R. The long answer will have to wait until I'm not on a borrowed computer (forum times out and I lose my post ).

[SteveYork]

You'll get as many different opinions as the number of people who post replies.

 

I'm a rangefinder guy, but over the years I've used an R6, R6.2, Leicaflex SL and Leicaflex SL2, and of these cameras my favorite is the SL. All the others I've owned and passed on, but I kept the SL.

 

It has a big, bold and beautiful viewfinder that dwarfs just about anything else I've used (Nikon, Minolta, R-Leicas). The SL2 is nice in this regard too, but I like the microprism focusing screen of the SL: Things just pop into focus. Coming from rangefinders, I found this very dramatic. Very easy to focus; in some respects, easier then a rangefinder. And I love the metering scale in the viewfinder, because it shows you where you have to go in relation to where you presently are located. Very quick to meter.

 

There are some downsides (e.g., not very sensitive meter), as well as other benefits, but if you're interested, I'm sure you'll get educated.

 

As far as a lens, I too would recommend the 50mm Summicron. In my opinion, they're all good. The same optical formula has been used since the mid-1970's (and the one before that was pretty good too).

[wildlightphoto]

... my favorite is the SL..

 

I agree with everything Steve writes about the SL but IMHO it might not be best for someone new to Leica-R:

 

• 
  The last ones are now nearly 40 years old and it takes some experience to recognize some of the age-related problems.
  

• 
  Lens compatibility can be more difficult to understand with the Leicaflexes
  

• some of the convenience features many of us take for granted are not found on the Leicaflexes, like hot shoe, built-in diopter correction and mirror pre-release.
  

 

IMHO the Leicaflex SL/SL2 and the R8/R9 are the best models. They're precise, robust, have low-vibration mirrors and excellent viewfinders, and are rich with sensory feedback. The R4 through R7 bodies will be as reliable with ordinary care (CLA every 10 years or so) but are not as robust as the R8/R9 or Leicaflexes, and the R4's mirror is not as well damped.

 

The R3 through R7 are excellent values because some consider them tainted with Minolta DNA: the R3 was based on a Minolta model, the R4 was co-developed with Minolta and the the R5, R-E, R6.x and R7 were derived from the R4. They're a good affordable entry into the R system but it's more likely that if repairs are needed it will be most cost-effective to go back to your used-camera store.

 

If you want a mirror pre-release, you want R6 or newer.

 

If you want built-in diopter correction, you want R5 or newer

 

If you want a motor drive or winder you want R3 MOT or newer (The Leicaflex motor is huge and only fits a $pecial model of the SL or SL2)

 

If you want a hot shoe you want an SL2 or newer

 

If you want the best lens compatibility you want R3 or newer.

 

If you want an interchangeable viewscreen you want R4 or newer.

 

For lenses, there are very few in the R lineup that I'd avoid and personal preference plays a very large role in deciding which best meets your needs... however the metering cams can be confusing to someone who is new to Leica-R. The Leicaflexes use the first two metering cams, the R3 and later bodies use the 3rd metering cam (and the last ROM lenses also have the 3rd cam). A lens without the 1st and 2nd cam will not meter or most often not even fit on a Leicaflex without modification. For the R bodies, any lens made after 1976 will have the 3rd cam.

 

Aside from knowing what the cams look like, the easiest ways to identify a 1976 or later lens is the standard threaded filter sizes (vs. Series filters) and the focal length engraved next to the DOF scale. Many of the pre-1976 lenses will also have the 3rd cam, and most can be retrofitted with the 3rd cam but until you learn to recognize the cams themselves the filter size and focal length engraving is easier to recognize.

 

The cam configuration of 1976 or later lenses can be described in many ways: 3-cam, 3rd-cam, R-cam and ROM being most common. These all fit and function perfectly on any R body. Note that some sellers don't know the cam configurations well so occasionally lenses will be mis-labelled.

 

For the Leicaflex SL2, any 2-cam or 3-cam lens will work. The SL's mirror box requires more clearance so some lenses will not fit the SL even if they have the correct metering cams.

[bill]

I've used SL and R7, and can only comment on them. Two totally different experiences, but each has its charms.

 

Advising a newbie today I would go for either the R7 or the unloved R-E; sufficient level of automation to not be intimidating, but also allowing full manual control as you grow into it.

 

Start with a 50mm Summicron too - you know it makes sense.

 

Oh, and the other thing you will need is a second mortgage - you are stepping on a slippery slope... :D

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[earleygallery]

I've had an R3 now for over 25 years, I've never felt the need to replace it with a later model, it does everything I need my SLR to do. It also has a superb shutter action, much nicer than some of the later models IMO.

 

But, any R body will do, just get one with a warranty. A 35 or 50 Summicron is a good starting point lens wise. R lenses are very good value now.

[stunsworth]

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Short answer: R8 and late-model 50mm Summicron-R

 

I agree, that's what I would do for too.

[JBA]

One known issue with some Leicaflex SL2s is the malfunction of the higher shutter speeds, particularly 1/2000. To the best of my knowledge, this affects only some cameras, but mine was certainly stricken with it. Apparently, this does not affect the SL. My choice of the SL2 hinged on its compatibility with certain lenses, the 24 Elmarit and 19 Elmarit in particular.

 

The R3 is another camera I can vouch for. It's underrated and can be got cheap. The only issue I have with it is the placement of the shutter speed dial, which is very conventional for a '70s SLR. Every other R, including the Leicaflex, has a nice, big shutter speed dial you can spin with your index finger without taking your eye from the viewfinder or your finger from the immediate vicinity of the trigger. This might or might not be an issue depending on how you shoot. I mostly use my R3 MOT on auto and blaze away, so this is not much of an issue.

 

The R8/R9 looks massive, but it's wonderfully ergonomic and functional. I use mine with a motor drive, which is surprisingly compact and quiet. My only complaint about the R8 is the depth of field preview, which is a downward-sliding lever, and nowhere near as comfortable as the Leicaflexes' plunger or the R3's lever.

 

If you have concerns about being reliant on battery power for anything but the camera's meter, the SL/SL2 and R6/R6.2 are the mechanical cameras in the line.

[jpattison]

The R8 is the biggest bargain, cost versus performance / features.

 

John

[garyp]

Even though I love my SL, I do agree with others who voted for the R8/R9, no question.

[mmradman]

... you will need is a second mortgage - you are stepping on a slippery slope... :D

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Partially agree, some R equipment can be expensive but some not so.

R3 to R7 bodies usually very cheap, exception being R6 & R6.2. Even R8 can be found cheap.

 

Common & not very expensive R lenses;

 

28mm f2.8 V1

35mm f2.8,

50mm f2

90mm f2.8

100mm f4 (rarer)

135mm f2.8

180mm f2.8 & f4 - earlier versions.

 

Didn't mention zooms but i would avoide some especially Sigma 28-70 disguised as Leica.

Apparantly Kyocera/Leica 80-200mm f4 ROM is very good.

 

Recently I moved into Leica myself, bought pristine R8 and number of R lenses at prices comparable with Nikon manual focus offering of similar vintage (from mid 1970s to late 1990s). I also brought some R lenses that require second mortgage , some reside on R8 and some on Nikon D700 via Leitax convertor.

 

My experience is based on UK retail but i would imagine US would be similar.

 

Regards,

 

Mladen

[symmetron]

Years ago, I started with R4S which worked out well. Cost today about $300;I bought one in 1985 new for about $600 I think. Having owned R3, R7, and R8, I liked them all and if you are just getting started, I'd look at an earlier model simply based on price. No doubt the later models like the R8/9 are nice cameras, but will probably cost closer to $800+.

 

Starting with an earlier model like a R4S, R-E, or R5 PLUS a 50 mm Summicron should cost about $700 total.

[symmetron]

Regarding manual R-series, I also have a SL; well made machine, but wouldn't recommend it unless you must have a manual camera. Also, be prepared for CLA if you get an older series R-series...should cost about $150 from a reputable repair shop, DAG, Sherry Krauter, or even Leica.

[sweetoleander]

I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused. Could you explain CLA for me?

[spydrxx]

A CLA is a Clean, Lube & Adjustment...can be done by any competent Leica repairperson...although you'll find many of us use a handful or so around the world who have shown excellent service, a high degree of knowledge and competence, as well as fair prices.

 

BTW, what camera and lenses are you using now....we can come up with lots of suggestions, but it may help us to focus on what you are used to or already familiar with.

 

Personally I'd happily recommend any of the R bodies I've used, which includes the SL, SL2, R3 or R8 and a 35mm lens based on your opening statement. Your bigest decision I believe will be to decide if you want a camera body which has automation or is manual in nature.

[sweetoleander]

I currently use a Nikon F5 with a 24mm f/2.8. I also play around with old "toy" cameras and whatever else I can get my hands on. I live in an area where it would be difficult to find a Leica repairman nearby, is it worth the drive, or should I go to a closer repairman?

[Doc Henry]

Welcome to the world Leica

My opinion :

Buy the cheapest on the second hand market and if possible a few months warranty,

but first ask your Leica lend you one !

 

In order of preference and I'm like Doug

SL or R8 and R4S (that is also a very good camera)

I always use all three cameras.

The SL (dating from 1969) has been revised by Solms in 2010 (parts still exist after 40 years) and is brand new (cost 1200 Euros) i agree

it is expensive but this camera reminds me a lot of memories (the best in point of view mechanical , robustness.no electronic except measuring exposure ,it's solid)

 

Best

Henry

 

PS: for lens : summicron 50mm !

 

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M8 35 Summilux Asph

[storybrown]

very lovely group!

[Stealth3kpl]

Saw this this morning if anyone is interested

SEALED-UNOPENED LEICA R5 BLACK BODY +35mm & 90mm LENSES | eBay UK

Pete

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[Ruhayat]

I can vouch for the R-E. Cheap, and has all the technology you'll need and nothing more. Just a nice blend of features, price and ergonomics. Paired with the 50mm Summicron, I think you can get it for around USD500. At least, I did.