EVF for M9

[ohnri]

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Well that's ONE interpretation Bill

Another might be that some Leica M users are expressing concern that the viewfinder might be changed from its current design. We just don't want an EVF instead.

There may be some future Leica with an EVF and maybe you will be able to also use some current lenses with it; we certainly don't know, but it can not be a Messsucherkamera (by definition).

 

I also want to use my RF the vast majority of the time, as I have been starting with my (still used) Leica IIIa.

 

But, I also want the option to fully exploit my expensive M lenses for their legendary resolution. Admittedly, that is not too often for my shooting style but the option to truly accurately focus would be something that I would hope to see in the future.

 

Of course, not if it mucked up my optical RF. I am in total agreement with you and many others there.

 

Best,

 

Bill

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[luigi bertolotti]

Well that's ONE interpretation Bill

Another might be that some Leica M users are expressing concern that the viewfinder might be changed from its current design. We just don't want an EVF instead.

There may be some future Leica with an EVF and maybe you will be able to also use some current lenses with it; we certainly don't know, but it can not be a Messsucherkamera (by definition).

 

I agree... but I think that EVF IS an interesting technology...and that, even if it could someday be feasible, Leica should better NOT to make an accessory of it... it would be costly and not good as a "focus confirmation" system (which, in case, should be better as a simple "blinking led" in the classical VF). If EVF will become a really good and serious possibilty, better that Leica should think at a camera built around it, with lens (M or R) compatibility as a plus... in marketing terms, I think it could be a smart way to convince his loyal customer to have ANOTHER body...

[lct]

Il will be an M if it has a rangefinder, as simple as that.

[thrice]

It hasn't really been mentioned but I feel somewhat qualified to mention one of the major obstacles here.

 

Stop-down metering.

 

I used to adapt Leica lenses to my Canon DSLR, and even with an optical TTL viewfinder precise focusing at f/8 is nigh-impossible. EVF's have about a decade (IMO) before they can amplify the optical signal with low enough noise to be smoothly focusable at smaller apertures and in very low light.

 

Using live view was barely usable for composing landscape shots at f/13 in failing light for example, let alone focusing!

 

Using a noctilux with a 6 stop ND during bright daylight would be practically impossible.

 

Because the M is designed with no automatic aperture, you would have a whole heap of fun shooting with stop-down metering unless you shot everything wide open, which I dare say few photographers do very well.

 

If they implemented current EVF technology on the M system which would REQUIRE stop-down metering, you can expect the improved keeper-rate you're imagining to disappear.

[pop]

Il will be an M if it has a rangefinder, as simple as that.

 

Of course. Much like the MDa or the M1.

[lct]

Of course. Much like the MDa or the M1.

You're playing with words aren't you. M means Messsucherkamera.

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You're playing with words aren't you. M means Messsucherkamera.

 

Leica sold the two products I mentioned (MDa and M1) as M type cameras. None of those are Messsucherkameras as they do not have any kind of Messsucher at all.

 

If Leica can sell an M camera with the name "MDa" which does not have any finder at all and another M camery with the name "M1" with a mere view finder and not a range finder, they can bloody well sell an M camera with the name MERF or whatever they please with an electronic range finder in place of or in addition to an optical range finder, if they so choose.

 

I only hope the won't discontinue the line of M cameras with the current kind of optomechanical range finder as I happen to like that very much. I am not looking forward to an adequate solution for M lens owners.

[lct]

All of us here want Ms to remain M cameras i.e. rangefinders here, so i don't see any problem personally.

[stunsworth]

But, I also want the option to fully exploit my expensive M lenses for their legendary resolution.

 

In which case a tripod will probably be more useful than an EVF.

[andybarton]

I don't see how an EVF can possibly assist in exploiting a lens's resolution.

[lct]

...EVF's have about a decade (IMO) before they can amplify the optical signal with low enough noise to be smoothly focusable at smaller apertures and in very low light...

A decade i don't know and auto brightness of EVFs doesn't do miracles for sure but in the worst (or the best) cases, we might use our beloved OVF when we intend to do so. Again what is envisaged here is not to replace the built-in OVF of M cameras but to complement it with an optional EVF the same way as we've always done with external OVFs so far.

[AlanG]

I don't see how an EVF can possibly assist in exploiting a lens's resolution.

 

I use magnified view very often for critical focusing... especially with the Canon 17 and 24 TS-E lenses. The old approach of thinking that the depth of field will cover the focusing error does not cut it now that I routinely examine the image at 100% on a high quality monitor. I use magnified live view hand held and when working on a tripod. I have also found live view to work well in low light and with stopped down lenses. Yes sometimes the image has some noise when it is dark, but the magnified live view will still assist for precise focusing. This is much much better than any other method in low light.

[bill]

It is a very good viewfinder. It's also a very good range finder.Uncluttered it is not. It has framelines. It has a focussing patch. It is close to ideal for some work and for some people. It is not suited very well for some other work.

 

All true, particularly the last part. I do not use my Ms for everything, any more than I would use a carving knife to open a parcel. It is a tool that is superlatively good at what it does; I need it to do no more, or different. For other applications I use other cameras and am happy to do so. At no point do I wish for a Swiss Army Knife camera as some here seem to.

 

Adding a live view type option or EVF option would greatly enhance the capabilities of the M system and would not need to interfere with the optical RF.

 

No. It would not. What it would add is cost and complexity unwanted by many and bring the M down to the lowest common denominator. How many times do I have to write this?

 

Just as the electronic M9 is far more popular than the all mechanical MP, ...

 

A ballpoint pen is more "popular" than a fountain pen too... Popularity is not a measure of excellence.

 

...adding a great deal of additional functionality while mantaining the basic simplicity of the RF would enhance the shooting experience.

 

No. It would not.

 

 

 

Frankly, optional live view is a near necessity if you want optimal sharpness even with the latest M lenses.

 

...do you truly believe that...?

 

Good grief.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[Bo_Lorentzen]

I would LOVE to have the option to pop a EVF accessory on top of my M9... pop it on top that is like any other accessory. would be perfect to compose off the chip some times, this might be a huge hit with landscape geeks.

 

However I have been playing with the GH2 the last few days (got one for my girlfriend and yes she love it). So i figured lets learn how to use a M lens on a EVF, installed my 35lux and took off..

 

Conclusion,

It is near impossible to keep situational awareness while focusing using a enlarged focus patch.

The GH2 have what is supposed to be the best EVF available (or at least the best I have seen) I find it near impossible to acquire perfect focus on the resolution of the screen.

 

Having played, I have politely returned her new camera, thanked for the fun and snatched my M9, I feel much better now... still, yes 100% if there were a available shotshoe EVF - I would have one in my tool box.

 

Some pictures from playing and links to full-size files at BoPhoto.com: GH2 with leica 35LUX v2 - Isolating the subject

 

Just my two cents.

[edmond_terakopian]

I absolutely love the rangefinder and I think Leica would be foolish if ever they got rid of it.

My thoughts are that an optional EVF would be extremely useful in given situations (as mentioned before).

 

On thing which is quite interesting is that the Leica was revolutionary; 120 roll shooters laughed at it and shunned away from this technological leap - a little like some of us are doing here!! I just think that EVF does have it's uses, but NOT at the expense of getting rid of the rangefinder.

 

Edmond

[giordano]

Ah but, in this context, this is a solution for the old "R" lenses.

 

Let's not go there again. It is simply not possible to fit a mirror or pellicle or swinging sensor between an R lens focused on infinity and an M body, at least not one big enough to serve a viewfinder.

 

Details at Making a M10 Macro & Telephoto friendly and in several other threads.

[Jerry_R]

3... 2... 1... ?????????

 

Some VERY cool news coming soon…. | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

 

PS: Or it is "only" about new Zeiss Distagon 2/25 coming :-)

 

PPS: Eeee, there is small almost hidden LEICA label on the news image... So probably something more related to Leica!

[NZDavid]

I don't see how an EVF can possibly assist in exploiting a lens's resolution.

 

I use magnified view very often for critical focusing... especially with the Canon 17 and 24 TS-E lenses. The old approach of thinking that the depth of field will cover the focusing error does not cut it now that I routinely examine the image at 100% on a high quality monitor. I use magnified live view hand held and when working on a tripod. I have also found live view to work well in low light and with stopped down lenses. Yes sometimes the image has some noise when it is dark, but the magnified live view will still assist for precise focusing. This is much much better than any other method in low light.

 

I'd never rely on DOF only. There is only ever one precise point of focus; everything else has varying levels of sharpness, acceptable or not. Personally I find a mechanical rangefinder is the best way of obtaining precise focus and using one is a lot easier than AF which can be hit and miss. Including low light. If you find the rangefinder patch is too small, you could add a magnifier -- it doesn't have to be an EVF.

 

It really does seem amazing how anyone ever succeeded in taking pictures with the M-series in the past at all -- obviously it needs a major redesign to bring it into the digital age: more complexity, please!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[ohnri]

In which case a tripod will probably be more useful than an EVF.

 

I'm as likely to have an elephant to rest my camera on as a tripod.

 

Best,

 

Bill

[ohnri]

I don't see how an EVF can possibly assist in exploiting a lens's resolution.

 

Well implemented EVF will assist in precise focus for many shots. Pretty obvious if you've ever used live view.

 

Best,

 

Bill