EVF for M9

[Steve Ash]

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There are some signs that your wish might come true. I think (or hope) that it will not be called M.

 

Regards

Steve

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[cirke]

If the price was right I would in a heart beat buy a M10 with EVF and focus conformation. What counts in the M line is the lenses. Give me a camera that is as small, easy to use and uses the great M glass, at near it's real focal length, as the M line and doesn't have the inherent problems with the mechanical rangefinder and I would buy it.

 

 

me too

[Shootist]

Fair enough, but many people feel very differently and the viewfinder is the reason that they prefer an M to an SLR or an EVF camera. As has been mentioned earlier there will never be an EVF for the M9, which is the answer to your original question.

 

I completely disagree. If it wasn't for the images my original M3 produced over the Nikon I had at that time I would of never bought one and become a Leica addict. It was not just because of the OVF that I bought a M8. It was to use Leica glass on that camera. If the Leica did not produce some of the best images the company would of died long ago, probably with the M5 if not before.

 

It's also the size and ease of handling that make the M so popular. But in the end it is the images it produces that make it what it is. And those images are made by the glass.

 

Look at all the other RF cameras that were made over the years. Where are they today, gone. They all had OVF, they all took the same film but what they didn't have was Leica glass.

 

And as far as some of the comment about what this forum is for. It is NOT just for users of Leica cameras. It is for the discussion of Leica the company and there cameras past, present and future.

So some of you get off your high horse.

[earleygallery]

No, there's no EVF for the M9, and no possible way of fitting an EVF to the M9.

 

There has been some speculation that Leica may partner with someone (Panasonic perhaps) to make an EVIL body which could take M and R lenses, but it's just that, speculation.

 

Unless you're prepared to settle for micro 4/3rds solutions then you really need to forget using Leica and find another system to suit your purposes.

[Shootist]

The "M" name comes from the first letter of the German word for "Rangefinder", this is why Luigi says "it will not be a M" - it has nothing to do with religion, no need to get defensive

 

Why couldn't there be a EVF that used the same rangefinder type focusing. there is nothing written in stone that a EVF has to use what the lens sees for the image it projects to the users eye or that it must only show what the lens would see, FOV.

[edmond_terakopian]

Strangely, I was thinking about this the other day. The M series is ideal for an optional EVF. One would naturally keep the rangefinder, but as there is no mirror box and if the future brought CMOS sensors, then an EVF would be very possible.

I've been a long time Leica shooter but choose so because of the quality and size; although I did use some R equipment too. Having an EVF will open the door to proper macro photography, tilt and shift lenses and for those who are interested, even video. For anyone not interested, the excellent rangefinder system will be there to use.

 

Erick, meanwhile, if you can cope with the doubling of focal length, the Micro 4/3 cameras work beautifully with Leica M lenses. I use an Olympus E-P2 with a Voigtlander adapter and my 35mm Summicron ASPH (becoming 70mm) produces some really beautiful results.

 

I'd love to see an M10 with a rangefinder and optional EVF :-)

 

Edmond

[aymoon]

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erick, I appreciate your sentiments, though I believe that the answers you have received regarding an EVF/M combination are correct. It isn't likely to ever happen.

 

I would, however, drop the rangefinder concept (which I love) in a second if there was a good EVF solution that used leica lenses with a FF sensor. ie. if the GF1 had a 36x24 sensor, I'd probably switch tomorrow as its EVF implementation is superb, with clear and accurate focus and dof prefiew. Unfortunately, the CCD technology in the M9 is not compatible with EVF, so any future EVF in a leica will have to rely on CMOS or other technology. Why Panasonic haven't come up with a FF version of the GF1 I don't know, but it seems like a sensible move to me. The most important thing to me is that it will take Leica glass, as that is why I use Leicas above all else.

[cirke]

Erick, meanwhile, if you can cope with the doubling of focal length, the Micro 4/3 cameras work beautifully with Leica M lenses. I use an Olympus E-P2 with a Voigtlander adapter and my 35mm Summicron ASPH (becoming 70mm) produces some really beautiful results.

 

I'd love to see an M10 with a rangefinder and optional EVF :-)

 

Edmond

Thank you Edmond

[cirke]

erick, I appreciate your sentiments, though I believe that the answers you have received regarding an EVF/M combination are correct. It isn't likely to ever happen.

 

I would, however, drop the rangefinder concept (which I love) in a second if there was a good EVF solution that used leica lenses with a FF sensor. ie. if the GF1 had a 36x24 sensor, I'd probably switch tomorrow as its EVF implementation is superb, with clear and accurate focus and dof prefiew. Unfortunately, the CCD technology in the M9 is not compatible with EVF, so any future EVF in a leica will have to rely on CMOS or other technology. Why Panasonic haven't come up with a FF version of the GF1 I don't know, but it seems like a sensible move to me. The most important thing to me is that it will take Leica glass, as that is why I use Leicas above all else.

yes maybe with another (or a new generation) sensor

 

thank you

[Steve Fines]

Several folks have used the word "impossible" to use an evf or other focusing systems with the m9 or rangefinder system.

 

If history and the development of electronics and optics has taught us anything, surely one lesson should be that what was is 'impossible' today will be figured out tomorrow.

 

I for one would love to have focus confirmation. Put in a menu option to turn it off for those who don't want it and you are set.

 

I've been thinking of where the viewfinder is on the M9. Imagine a 'cube' shape that encompasses it. If one could slide this cube off and replace it with another of a different focal length we could get around the need for external wide angle viewfinders. A much cleaner, more elegant appearing solution than the Frankenfinder.

 

Also I expect that, if these were exchangeable, they could be tweaked to adjust front and back focusing.

 

Or have the current type viewfinder as default and be able to put in an electronic one in its place that could do focus confirmation, show the frame lines from 12mm - 135mm or other features that, while not historically included on the M series, wouldn't be out of place on a 7K camera in the 21st century.

 

Just a thought. Likely won't happen, but certainly not 'impossible'.

[cirke]

I hope Leica is listening

[pico]

Strangely, I was thinking about this the other day. The M series is ideal for an optional EVF. One would naturally keep the rangefinder, but as there is no mirror box and if the future brought CMOS sensors, then an EVF would be very possible. [...]

 

So far, I've found the Panasonic Lumix G1 to have the best mirrorless EVF, but the finder is still inadequate for manual focus. It is, in fact, even worse than any traditional SLR I've ever used. (I use it with Leica M lenses.)

 

If Leica came up with an EVF, it would have to be as bright, fast, and accurate as the traditional M camera's finder. What kind of technology might suffice for that? And if it is only just as bright, fast and accurate, then why bother?

[stunsworth]

I hope Leica is listening

 

Why? We've had this discussion many times before. Some people want SLR type functionality, others don't. There's no one thing that makes the M system so good, it's a combination of lots of them.

[pico]

Why couldn't there be a EVF that used the same rangefinder type focusing. there is nothing written in stone that a EVF has to use what the lens sees for the image it projects to the users eye or that it must only show what the lens would see, FOV.

 

Quite so, however what advantage would it have over the current rangefinder? It would have to be more robust than the current mechanical RF, and just as bright, fast and accurate.

[lct]

Implementing an EVF would require the use of a CMOS sensor IINR so i would not expect to see one on the M9.

Otherwise there is no logical, historical or whatever reason why an optional EVF could not fit a future M camera the same way as optional OVFs do fit early and current film and digital Ms.

 

[jc_braconi]

some of you have red the last LFI magazine article about ?

[pico]

Implementing an EVF would require the use of a CMOS sensor IINR so i would not expect to see one on the M9.

Otherwise there is no logical, historical or whatever reason why an optional EVF could not fit a future M camera the same way as optional OVFs do fit early and current film and digital Ms.]

 

Of course, besides switching to CMOS, the shutter would have to be changed (if it could be), the flash shoe would have to be moved, it would be extra bulky, and in the end people would complain that it had no auto-focus, and aperture-only auto-exposure.

 

And would the finder be as bright and crisp as the current RF? I think not.

 

I see a disaster in that path.

[rosuna]

some of you have read the last LFI magazine article about ?

 

No. What is saying the LFI article about this? This is the sample:

 

https://www.lfi-online.de/ceemes//base.php?webfile/show/4194//__noattachment__=1

 

I think it is a question of time: CMOS sensors will be used in all the Leica cameras, and this will bring many new possibilities for versatility and efficiency. When this will happen? It is now clear, because the technical requirements are diverse and it depends on how Leica's partners make their products evolve.

 

The X cameras already have this type of sensors. The S system would need a very large CMOS sensor, but the M system would need a back-illuminated CMOS sensor with offset microlenses, etc. All those solutions should be offered in the components market for companies like Leica, etc.

 

So it will happen, but it will require time, different periods of time depending on the camera system.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[DavidStone]

This whole question is a bit contentious, of course, but there are those - even antediluvian photographers like me - who have discovered that current technology has its benefits. I've worked my way through the Leica range over several decades, starting with a 1938 Leica III, which I still have, and which in my opinion is easier and quicker to focus than the M series, due to its enlarged rangefinder window. I now use mostly the M8, which is, essentially, not much different in use than my M2. I have no complaints about the M8's build quality, or image quality, or the quality of the Leica lenses.

 

But I also have a Panasonic GF1, which is my current "pocket" camera. I hate to admit it, but that camera, which by Leica standards cost pocket money, can focus quicker, and usually much quicker, than I can with the M8. This means that "grab" shots can be grabbed that much quicker. And the image quality, with its 20mm (=40mm) lens, is OK - no better than OK, but OK nevertheless.

 

I agree that the M series Leica is just that and I'm happy that it should stay that way, but maybe, and I'm absolutely certain that Leica management is well aware of this, the time has come for a new series, with a new name. The one camera on the horizon that seems to me to clearly point the way ahead is, of course, the Fuji X100. I have no intention of buying one, since it's close to the size and weight of the M8 that I have, and has a fixed lens. But I bet that Leica will get hold of one and study it carefully.

 

For me, after all these years, the Leica train hit the buffers with the M8. I'm not going to buy the M9. But I'm keeping a careful eye on what's going on out there.

 

David

[XK50]

The LFI article is intriguing and unclear, but I think it was suggesting an "R" lens solution using the M9.

 

Also, I recall, over the summer, Stefan D talking about (on Steve Huff's site?) an interesting M9 accessory, we "would never guess". It hasn't arrived, so far.

 

So, I googled "Leica M9", this afternoon, and came up with the attached.

 

With a slight sense of mischief, I see Wilkinsons have the M9 DSLR in stock and I can get the M10, now, from Amazon.

 

Are we in for an interesting 2011?

 

Best wishes,

 

John

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